Everything Valanciunas

[raptors999]

All rookies suck 1-2 years

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...-sudden-impact

[Superjudge]

The interesting thing is about this idea is that it has two facets: a) how do he and the others in his class, play against everyone else in the league, and b) how does he play against his own class. To be clear, I'll use an example - take Jonas vs. Drummond. When you look at them both vs. the rest of the league, each has their strengths and weaknesses, and you can make a good case that either one will have turned out to be the better player when all's said and done. But when you look at them head to head, it isn't really close IMO - Jonas tends to destroy Drummond. And I'd say that this generally holds true across the rest of league; he plays very well against other young bigs, but he doesn't distinguish himself from his peers nearly as much when you look at how they all play against the rest of the league.

I think this is a good thing, because it suggests when he and his peers are all in their primes, he's going to have the advantage.

I like this Jimi. And it stands to reason that there is room for growth. I guess I am more trying to dismantle the myths surrounding JV and who he is as a player right now. His team, his management, they are bringing him along just fine. Anything thats going wrong with him he has to be accountable for. Oddly, I would lean towards him having the same opinion if he were asked, most athletes do. Media and fans like to make up stories, drama's, etc. the truths are usually much less complicated.

He's young, but he has had a chance to play.
He's raw, but he's getting close to that time where he has to come outta the oven.... ya know what I'm saying. Same can be said for others in his class though, you're right, and I agree. So then there i sanother question...are any of them all that good?

hahaha fun to think about.

[Superjudge]

I read your entire poist, most of it was pointless drivel that was not worthy of responding to fully, I questioned a point you made that was a fallacy and a double standard.

Thats just an unbiased opinion.

[/QUOTE]

Indeed.

[The Great One]

Dream Shake

[S.R.]

Hahaha.

as per usual, you guys, S.R. did the same thing, ignore, flat out ignore parts of what I post when you respond. I clearly made reference to his age, and, stated that age is NOT as important as time spent in competition. Jonas isn't some 23 year old whelp just seeing NBA play for the first time, the kid has been a pro since he was 16-17. You wanna dispute the importance of that, thats cool, but don't just ignore it.

When a guy comes to the NBA as a 5th pick, after he has just taken a year to develop in the top euro league after that draft, he should be ahead pf his peers. Period. was Jonas ahead of his class when he final came? Is he now??

As per usual you can't talk about a raptor player here objectively without his fans losing their fucking minds. Nobody is saying JV is shit, just saying he's had enough time to start showing he isn't a scrub. any Center worth his salt by year 4 should at least be able to make something happen past easy lays ins off offensive rebounds. JV is about as offensively and defensively aware as a drunk Ardvark most nights, and as Jack says.... some guys are "players" and some aren't.

So what do you want from an objective mind if not he truth. Guys here go on and on about DC and how its HIS fault for not utilizing JV properly...holy shit, what games you guys watching. this kid get the ball so many times, and usually early in games, 10-15 foot out on ISO's and what does he do with these opportunities???? An absolutely embarrassing pump fake, EVERYTIME. never substantiated by an actual shot, and rarely, and I mean RARELY followed by a power move or even the most basic back down. And when he does...he bobbles the rock or has it picked. Of, but he's 23. yeah, a 23 year old 5 year vet of pro ball.

Anyone defending him and making excuses is being silly. While I repeat, he is NOT by any means finished growing a sa player.... he certainly should be fucking better, and this year, he had better be MUCH better. Or, he's just a guy, not a bad one, but not a game changer. And not worth max cash.

Thats just an unbiased opinion.

I ignored it because it's asinine. If you need an edumacashion on the difference between 30-ish game Euroleague seasons where JV played 15 mpg (split between the second tier and first tier Lithuanian leagues) and the NBA, I'm not about to waste my time taking you to school.

[S.R.]

I like this Jimi. And it stands to reason that there is room for growth. I guess I am more trying to dismantle the myths surrounding JV and who he is as a player right now. His team, his management, they are bringing him along just fine. Anything thats going wrong with him he has to be accountable for. Oddly, I would lean towards him having the same opinion if he were asked, most athletes do. Media and fans like to make up stories, drama's, etc. the truths are usually much less complicated.

He's young, but he has had a chance to play.
He's raw, but he's getting close to that time where he has to come outta the oven.... ya know what I'm saying. Same can be said for others in his class though, you're right, and I agree. So then there i sanother question...are any of them all that good?

hahaha fun to think about.

Of the current young bigs in the NBA, only Anthony Davis has a shot at being truly great. The rest of them aren't even close to the skill level of bigs that dominated the 80's and 90's (my main point of reference).

[Superjudge]

I ignored it because it's asinine. If you need an edumacashion on the difference between 30-ish game Euroleague seasons where JV played 15 mpg (split between the second tier and first tier Lithuanian leagues) and the NBA, I'm not about to waste my time taking you to school.

taking me where?

fuck dude.

stop.

[Superjudge]

Of the current young bigs in the NBA, only Anthony Davis has a shot at being truly great. The rest of them aren't even close to the skill level of bigs that dominated the 80's and 90's (my main point of reference).

And then you post this...hahahaha

classic.

Love ya buddy, but I'm not with ya on the JV. I just don't see a star there.... but I hope...I always got hope.

[Vykis]

Of the current young bigs in the NBA, only Anthony Davis has a shot at being truly great. The rest of them aren't even close to the skill level of bigs that dominated the 80's and 90's (my main point of reference).

You could add Boogie to that list, dudes a skilled beast

[ceez]

Lowe had a good piece on guys getting extensions this year. Here's his bit on JV.

The “Max Me or Talk to Me in a Year” Centers

Jonas Valanciunas: It’s the classic GM rule of thumb: If a player insists on a max-level extension, and you don’t think he’s quite that good, hold your ground and let the guy enter restricted free agency the following summer. What’s the worst that could happen? The guy plays well, another team lavishes him with a max deal, and you match a contract he’s earned.

There are minor risks in waiting. The player could obliterate those matching rights by signing a one-year qualifying offer in restricted free agency, but that’s a massive gamble no player has taken when presented with a max contract. A rival could offer a Chandler Parsons–style two-year deal with a player option in Year 3, meaning that even if you match, you face the dreaded endgame of losing that player in free agency two years earlier than necessary.

But you can mitigate the Parsons risk, too. Chicago did so with Jimmy Butler by preemptively hitting him with a so-called “maximum qualifying offer” — a five-year max deal that, once delivered, requires any other suitor to offer at least three fully guaranteed seasons.

Butler’s extension talks are instructive. In a simplistic sense, the Bulls “lost”; they could have inked Butler for something less than the max, but they wouldn’t budge from a number well below that, and come July, they had to give Butler the max deal they had refused him. Orlando might have saved itself almost $25 million by taking the opposite course with Nikola Vucevic. But you can flip that around and call it good negotiating: Chicago knew the power of restricted free agency, and it figured the gap between the two sides last fall was a price worth paying to see if Butler was really worth a max deal — and whether he stayed healthy.

There’s a point at which the gap between a player’s salary demand and his max salary is so small that a team should just punt on the extension. For a good young center in this market, teams might want to inch very close to that max before giving up. Every bit of savings can help fit future free agents. Agreeing to a dollar figure below the max is a hedge against the cap rising higher than expected. A true max salary is set as a percentage of the salary cap; if the 2016-17 cap comes in above the current $89.5 million projection, any max deal negotiated ahead of time would float up with the cap.3 Extending a player at a number even just $500,000 below the projected max could bring a much bigger payoff.

Ducking the max, even by a hair, makes it easier to play around with the year-over-year numbers — to keep a deal flat over time, or even negotiate salary decreases. That could come in handy if the cap actually drops in 2018-19, as the league and union currently project.

Valanciunas is a lock to demand a max-level extension. Large humans get paid, and this large human shot 51 percent on post-ups as a 22-year-old banging against the world’s toughest bigs, per Synergy Sports. He’s a beast on the offensive glass, shoots almost 80 percent from the line, and should develop as a pick-and-roll finisher — both at the rim, and with a soft midrange jumper.

He has also been an odd, underused fit in a Drakes offense dominated by gunner guards who prefer clear driving lanes — a problem that could persist, and harm his value, if Dwane Casey is serious about playing smaller. He’s a potent enough post scorer to draw double-teams but laughably bad at passing out of them. Building him into a plus defender, both at the rim and in open space, will be arduous. If the Raptors can’t convince Valanciunas that securing money now is worth bending a bit on annual salary, what’s really in it for them?

An early max extension would also eat into Toronto’s cap flexibility for next summer. Valanciunas would go on the 2016-17 books at a salary around $21 million. If the Raptors wait, Valanciunas would count as only an $11 million “cap hold” when free agency kicks off.4 The Spurs could not have signed LaMarcus Aldridge without first denying Kawhi Leonard a max-level extension precisely to hoard this bit of wiggle room. That $10 million difference might not matter if Toronto re-signs DeMar DeRozan, but it could help the Raps seize an opportunity in free agency.

They could still make room to do that, even with Valanciunas at a big number, by letting both DeRozan and Ross walk. Would the Raptors dare venture as high as four years, $80 million — below the projected four-year, $93 million max — to keep Valanciunas in the fold? That may be too rich for Masai Ujiri’s blood, and if it is, expect Valanciunas to hit the market next summer.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/we...=story-twitter

[mcHAPPY]

Unless JV is signing for his cap hold or less per year (about $11M) then you don't extend until next summer.

That is an easy conversation with JV/agent and should be an understandable, while likely not preferable, one for JV/agent.

[JWash]

Unless JV is signing for his cap hold or less per year (about $11M) then you don't extend until next summer.

That is an easy conversation with JV/agent and should be an understandable, while likely not preferable, one for JV/agent.

While I agree with this, Lowe mentions the Wizards not having the same reputation as the Spurs to be able to do what they did with Kawhi this past offseason. I'd imagine the situation is the same for us with Valanciunas, and he could very easily just sign a max offer sheet with another team on day one of free agency. Especially considering how underutilized he's been with us.

[JWash]

I would push hard to try and sign JV for a bit less than the max now

[mcHAPPY]

While I agree with this, Lowe mentions the Wizards not having the same reputation as the Spurs to be able to do what they did with Kawhi this past offseason. I'd imagine the situation is the same for us with Valanciunas, and he could very easily just sign a max offer sheet with another team on day one of free agency. Especially considering how underutilized he's been with us.

That is fine but Raps would have 3 days to match during which time the other team would have valuable cap space tied up.

RFA always get offers after desirable UFA have been sorted out.

[Primer]

That is fine but Raps would have 3 days to match during which time the other team would have valuable cap space tied up.

RFA always get offers after desirable UFA have been sorted out.

I think it'd be pretty easy to convince JV to wait while we go after Durant or Horford if we guarantee him we'll sign him to a max deal after we use the space (the Kawhi situation). All he'd do by forcing us to use our cap space early is piss off all his teammates when we miss out on making Durant/Horford an offer. There is literally a 0% chance we'd let him go to another team as an RFA, so all it would be is a dick move.