Everything Valanciunas

[hateslosing]

Back to the topic, in this vid, Barkley and Sahq were criticizing/talking about Blake and Dwight's post up game. I think both guys are GREAT post up players, they're not McHale or Olajuwon but they're really good. Now compare Blake and Dwight's post up game to JV. I don't think it's close.

Dwight Howard is not a good post up player, he has about 1 move and poor touch around the basket. He used to be a reasonably good scorer but that was off of pick and rolls, not setting up in the deep post and breaking his man down. Blake is a decent high post player, but he is limited in terms of what he can do in the low post. Jonas is not amazing in the post and as others have said he needs to work on catching the ball deeper to become more effective, but once he gets the ball down there he has a couple pretty effective moves (short running hook, drop step fader) and excellent touch. I think he can get a lot better, he has shown a bit of a drop step and if he get's stronger it's going to be money.

Low post basketball has become a bit of a forgotten art in recent years, Demarcus Cousins is a good guy to watch if want to see a young player with real low post skills in the modern NBA.

[SkywalkerAC]

Dwight Howard is not a good post up player, he has about 1 move and poor touch around the basket. He used to be a reasonably good scorer but that was off of pick and rolls, not setting up in the deep post and breaking his man down. Blake is a decent high post player, but he is limited in terms of what he can do in the low post. Jonas is not amazing in the post and as others have said he needs to work on catching the ball deeper to become more effective, but once he gets the ball down there he has a couple pretty effective moves (short running hook, drop step fader) and excellent touch. I think he can get a lot better, he has shown a bit of a drop step and if he get's stronger it's going to be money.

Low post basketball has become a bit of a forgotten art in recent years, Demarcus Cousins is a good guy to watch if want to see a young player with real low post skills in the modern NBA.

I hate the term 'forgotten art' for things you see NBA players do on a daily basis.

[Bandit]

I hate the term 'forgotten art' for things you see NBA players do on a daily basis.

Not many do in the post what guys like Shaq/Kareem/Hakeem/Duncan used to do

[raptors999]

I hate the term 'forgotten art' for things you see NBA players do on a daily basis.

Biyombo is still mastering the forgotten art of dumping a ball into a hoop 1-2 inches away.

[SkywalkerAC]

Not many do in the post what guys like Shaq/Kareem/Hakeem/Duncan used to do

Dominant post scoring - 25-30 ppg night in and night out - has become a thing of the past, but there are still plenty of guys scoring in the post. There are maybe a handful of games in the entire season (2460 games) where someone doesn't score from the low post.

[hateslosing]

I hate the term 'forgotten art' for things you see NBA players do on a daily basis.

You're right, it is inaccurate.

Correction: The level of big man low post play in today's guard centric NBA is significantly lower than it was in years past. Even in the 90's, the first option on a lot of teams was to dump the ball to your big man in the low post (Shaq, Ewing, Ming) today it is exceedingly rare for the go to play on a team to be dumping the ball to your centre on the low block. This is due to a variety of reasons but in my opinion the main ones are:

1. The elimination of the "hand check"
2. The defensive three second violation
3. The increased level of athleticism at the wing positions.

These changes all encourage guard play and it shift the emphasis away from developing skills in the low post and toward being effective in screen and roll situations or even to popping out to spread the floor. It's not to say there is no low post basketball anymore, every game there are tonnes of scoring plays down low and we wouldn't be talking about JV's ability in that area if it was not useful in today's game. Rather, the level of low post play in the league in general is lower than it was in years past.

[SkywalkerAC]

You're right, it is inaccurate.

Correction: The level of big man low post play in today's guard centric NBA is significantly lower than it was in years past. Even in the 90's, the first option on a lot of teams was to dump the ball to your big man in the low post (Shaq, Ewing, Ming) today it is exceedingly rare for the go to play on a team to be dumping the ball to your centre on the low block. This is due to a variety of reasons but in my opinion the main ones are:

1. The elimination of the "hand check"
2. The defensive three second violation
3. The increased level of athleticism at the wing positions.

These changes all encourage guard play and it shift the emphasis away from developing skills in the low post and toward being effective in screen and roll situations or even to popping out to spread the floor. It's not to say there is no low post basketball anymore, every game there are tonnes of scoring plays down low and we wouldn't be talking about JV's ability in that area if it was not useful in today's game. Rather, the level of low post play in the league in general is lower than it was in years past.

Compared to the golden era of centres, yeah, it has shifted from a position of defense+offense-creation, to one of defense+offensive-finishing. But even then we're a lot better off than we were in the 2000s when there was a past-prime Shaq, a little Yao, Big Z, and not much else (from the 5-spot).

[raptors999]

You're right, it is inaccurate.

Correction: The level of big man low post play in today's guard centric NBA is significantly lower than it was in years past. Even in the 90's, the first option on a lot of teams was to dump the ball to your big man in the low post (Shaq, Ewing, Ming) today it is exceedingly rare for the go to play on a team to be dumping the ball to your centre on the low block. This is due to a variety of reasons but in my opinion the main ones are:

1. The elimination of the "hand check"
2. The defensive three second violation
3. The increased level of athleticism at the wing positions.

These changes all encourage guard play and it shift the emphasis away from developing skills in the low post and toward being effective in screen and roll situations or even to popping out to spread the floor. It's not to say there is no low post basketball anymore, every game there are tonnes of scoring plays down low and we wouldn't be talking about JV's ability in that area if it was not useful in today's game. Rather, the level of low post play in the league in general is lower than it was in years past.

Players entering at 18-19 means alot are missing shooting, dribbling and passing skills. Alot are just lanky tall guys with gadget arms -Bruno

[S.R.]

I hate the term 'forgotten art' for things you see NBA players do on a daily basis.

Not many do in the post what guys like Shaq/Kareem/Hakeem/Duncan used to do

I'm not sure about the death of the big man/post game narrative. I've always got this suspicion it's tainted by some "back in my day" bias. The most dominant team in the 90's, Jordan's Bulls, never had a post scorer. The 2000's had Duncan, Shaq, and Yao. There's a really, really nice new crop of young bigs coming up, including Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins, Towns, Jonas, etc. But if you pull out GOAT comparisons and say "There's no Kareem/Hakeem" - well, obviously not. There was only one Kareem and only one Hakeem. Those guys are GOATS.

I think teams have realized you don't have to play a certain sized player at a certain position if you don't have the talent. So 7 foot stiffs either hardly play or don't even have a roster spot anymore. If you have a 6'9" guy who can ball, then you play him over the 7 footer who can't.

Maybe the college system isn't developing post players properly anymore, I don't know. The rule changes have definitely affected the preferred style of play, and so has the realization that 3-pointers are worth 50% more than all other shots (oversimplification, not adjusting for FG%).

I'd like to see actual numbers comparing the style of play in the different eras. What shots were taken, by who, and from where on the floor?

[SkywalkerAC]

The list really does just go on and on in the modern era for big-men that score - Vuc, Kanter, Ibaka, Favours, Aldridge/Duncan, Okafor, Big Al, and so on.

[SkywalkerAC]

The list really does just go on and on in the modern era for big-men that score - Vuc, Kanter, Ibaka, Favours, Aldridge/Duncan, Okafor, Big Al, and so on.

[hotfuzz]

I do wonder why big men who can only score and not defend are more maligned than wings/guards with the same quality (or lack thereof).

[mcHAPPY]

I do wonder why big men who can only score and not defend are more maligned than wings/guards with the same quality (or lack thereof).

Good question....especially in today's game with, overall, a more perimeter focused attack.

[raptors999]

I do wonder why big men who can only score and not defend are more maligned than wings/guards with the same quality (or lack thereof).

Bigs who cant defend give up dunks. There are two types Bargs, Jefferson and Kanter types who offer no resistance and Scola who cant protect the rim but dont just let guys walk in for dunks and at least rebounds

[Bandit]

I don't want to take anything away from the team win last night, or Demar's clutch stretch.

But JV, man I'm thinking that deal he signed is going to be a bargain.

Last night was what, the 2nd or 3rd time this year that he's sealed a game down the stretch by hitting a pair of free throws? He's been drawing fouls off of rebounds to get to the line and put games away. And then follows it up with great defense. I thought it was luck the first time it happened, but now it just looks like great effort and smart basketball.

It's so nice to finally see him closing out games, with a defensive scheme to help him, and him rising to the occasion. Not to mention him being included in the offense throughout the whole game. I'm going to put away my #FreeJV drum now