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  • S.R. wrote: View Post
    How many C's have come and gone from this roster while JV's been here? What, other than usage, makes you think he's not a core piece?
    Frankly, if you look at minutes and usage in combination, he's a clear third on the team, and has been for some time.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      Frankly, if you look at minutes and usage in combination, he's a clear third on the team, and has been for some time.
      Has been for 4 years, yes. But it looks and sounds a lot like that is changing. A core player, for instance, doesn't get benched for "matchups".
      Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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      • S.R. wrote: View Post
        How many C's have come and gone from this roster while JV's been here? What, other than usage, makes you think he's not a core piece?
        we weren't approaching being a contending team on any of those previous rosters. sure jv looks great compared to jan tabak but we are not an expansion team.
        skillset and system are dictating the lack of usage (at least in casey's eyes). we are seeing a backup level player (almost off the roster) in bebe put up a very good offensive rating and improving a putrid defense. we have a number of useful and good players (all of them are in fact as long as ross is good ross) but our core imo is lowry, demar, casey. unless casey is fired and a new system is in place (doubtful atm) then I'm willing to trade or change the role of any other player on our team if it looks like a positive, complimentary adjustment. I dont define our starting five or cory and ross as our core. they are all complimentary role players around our core. what is your definition?

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          Frankly, if you look at minutes and usage in combination, he's a clear third on the team, and has been for some time.
          the gap between lowry/dd and jv is like comparing the raps to the cavs. the numbers might seem close (we lose by 5 or a 5% difference in usage) but watching the games it's a lot more "clear" and pronounced. we are not contenders, jv is not the core. hes a good player that has played with us for a long time. we've been knocking at the door for a long time and we've been asking the same questions about jv for a long time. it's got to the point that we need to make an adjustment to potentially take a step or resign ourselves to being a cut below until lowrys window closes. if that's the case then trade lowry and move the window back. i'd rather trade jv and try to maximize our current window. we're not trading lowry and it could be difficult to trade jv. sucks but we should certainly be talking about it imo.

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          • So the guy who recently just signed an extension, whose started pretty much every game and has lead the team in Win Shares, PER, and WS/48 on seperate occasions isn't part of the "core"? What in the world

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            • tDotted wrote: View Post
              So the guy who recently just signed an extension, whose started pretty much every game and has lead the team in Win Shares, PER, and WS/48 on seperate occasions isn't part of the "core"? What in the world
              The question is not SHOULD JV be part of the core. He's clearly not being used that way. Again, "core" players don't get benched for "matchups".
              Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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              • jimmie wrote: View Post
                The question is not SHOULD JV be part of the core. He's clearly not being used that way. Again, "core" players don't get benched for "matchups".
                Dude, he's a consistent starter on the team. He is part of the core. That doesn't mean he can't possibly be traded away in the future, but he is still one of the main players on the team even with his limited usage.

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                • I think we're just playing a game of semantics now. What "core" means can vary from one person to the next.

                  Regardless, I'm sure we can all agree that Jonas is being under-utilized in the current playbook. And we have very little reason to assume this will change.

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                  • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    I think we're just playing a game of semantics now. What "core" means can vary from one person to the next.

                    Regardless, I'm sure we can all agree that Jonas is being under-utilized in the current playbook. And we have very little reason to assume this will change.
                    Exactly. Not "core" in my measurement for that reason. "Core" to me refers to players that the GM would absolutely not trade unless a rebuild is in the offing. JV is not in that group.
                    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                    • jimmie wrote: View Post
                      Exactly. Not "core" in my measurement for that reason. "Core" to me refers to players that the GM would absolutely not trade unless a rebuild is in the offing. JV is not in that group.
                      agreed. ross was a starter, we extended him, hes on the bench, we tried to get an upgrade in carroll. amir got a long contract, he was starter. no longer with the team. scola was a starter (granted one season), siakam same, sully was supposed to step in to that role, calderone was a long time starter. bosh was a core/franchise player that we tried to build around. so was bargs. gay was supposed to be and dealing him was supposed to begin a rebuild.

                      jv sets great screen and rebounds and put backs. he used to get a handful of posts ups. that's a role player. if they start giving him 10 post up/game then i will consider him part of the core. it's been discussed for several years. if he starts anchoring the defense (effectively), i will also give him consideration in the core. also discussed for years.

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                      • jimmie wrote: View Post
                        Exactly. Not "core" in my measurement for that reason. "Core" to me refers to players that the GM would absolutely not trade unless a rebuild is in the offing. JV is not in that group.
                        Harden wasn't part of the Thunder's core from 2009-2012?

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                        • tDotted wrote: View Post
                          Harden wasn't part of the Thunder's core from 2009-2012?
                          He was part of their core, until they decided he wasn't

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                          • tDotted wrote: View Post
                            Harden wasn't part of the Thunder's core from 2009-2012?
                            good point. money can change things. there's probably examples of injury, conflicts, etc. where it happens too.

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                            • tDotted wrote: View Post
                              Harden wasn't part of the Thunder's core from 2009-2012?
                              I guess I'll repeat it again. JV isn't being used like someone you'd ever consider a core player. Harden was different in that he was being used as a core player in OKC. Until they realized that couldn't work long term (and money was the issue there, not fit).
                              Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                              • jimmie wrote: View Post
                                Exactly. Not "core" in my measurement for that reason. "Core" to me refers to players that the GM would absolutely not trade unless a rebuild is in the offing. JV is not in that group.
                                I would also add that a core player could be traded for financial reasons. That would cover the case of Harden. Clearly if they felt they could pay him there's no way he would've been moved.

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