The Toronto Blue Jays/MLB Thread.

[Wild-ling#1]

13-9
13-8
8 -8
7-8
11-6

Those are the won loss records of the starting 5 pitchers for the KC Royals.... They managed to compete pretty well last year.
Is it that unrealistic to have our starters as currently assembled go:
Strohman could go 14-8
The Dick will go 12 and 14 and eat up 200 plus innings
Estrada will go 11 and 10
Happ will go 8 and 12
Chavez/Hutch as swing 5th starters go 7 and 12

52 wins.. same as what the KC Royals starters put up last year...
Relax. Even if we are becoming the Cleveland Indians we have a real shot at the WS again this coming year.

Good point.

But have you seen their bullpen? The best 'pen in baseball for making the absolute most out of starts. We can't compete there ...

We do have the offense, true ...

But I think fans were looking to improve, in some way, in the off-season ...

[raptors999]

Are you still peddling this nonsense? $217 million does not equal $60 million. Your math is somewhat flawed. This year, Dickey/Estrada/Happ will cost you about $36 million, which is slightly more than you would be paying one guy. You will get ~85 starts for the price of 30. Is this really that difficult?

I, too, would love to have David Price but unless the Jays were willing to significantly increase payroll it was never going to happen. It has nothing, zero, ziltch, nada to do with Dickey/Estrada/Happ. It isn't as though they signed those guys and then went, 'Jesus, we could have signed David Price! What were we doing? Now, we have no money left!!!"

You have to replace Dickey, Estrada and Happ when they expire unless Sanchez , Osuna are ready as starters in which case there are too many 3-5 pitchers costing too much now. #1 starters are rare and expensive, back end veterans are just expensive

[slaw]

You have to replace Dickey, Estrada and Happ when they expire unless Sanchez , Osuna are ready as starters in which case there are too many 3-5 pitchers costing too much now. #1 starters are rare and expensive, back end veterans are just expensive

Um, you'd have to replace Happ, Dickey and Estrada today if you let them all walk to pay David Price (again, that makes no sense but I'll play along). So, in addition to Price, you would still need to add 3 starters to go along with Stroman and Price. That means adding, ta-da, guys like JA Happ, Marco Estrade and RA Dickey.

Again, unless the Jays were willing to drastically increase payroll (by about $45 million or so) then Price was never coming back. Whether they should increase payroll or not is another story but please stop with this nonsense that they passed on Price to sign Happ and Estrada....

[slaw]

Cueto, Volquez, and Ventura are better than any of the pitchers we have not named Stroman.

Chances of Cueto being back in Kansas City: Zero to none. Actually, is less than zero a number? Cause then that's the answer.

[raptors999]

Um, you'd have to replace Happ, Dickey and Estrada today if you let them all walk to pay David Price (again, that makes no sense but I'll play along). So, in addition to Price, you would still need to add 3 starters to go along with Stroman and Price. That means adding, ta-da, guys like JA Happ, Marco Estrade and RA Dickey.

Again, unless the Jays were willing to drastically increase payroll (by about $45 million or so) then Price was never coming back. Whether they should increase payroll or not is another story but please stop with this nonsense that they passed on Price to sign Happ and Estrada....

Either Sanchez and Osuna, Hutch are in the starting rotation or they aren't. Dickey, Happ and Estrada all will be in the rotation. Using cheap guys to fill out a rotation makes more sense especially in Rogers which can inflate runs anyway. A stopper in the rotation who eats inning is really valuable.

[slaw]

Either Sanchez and Osuna, Hutch are in the starting rotation or they aren't. Dickey, Happ and Estrada all will be in the rotation. Using cheap guys to fill out a rotation makes more sense especially in Rogers which can inflate runs anyway. A stopper in the rotation who eats inning is really valuable.

Yes, having David Price would be awesome but it was never an (a) or (b) of (a) sign David Price or (b) sign Happ, Estrada and Dickey. They never had any intention of signing Price cause it was too much money. Period. Full stop. If they signed Price they would have had nada, zilch, zero to spend anywhere else. No one likes it but it isn't really hard to understand that it has nothing to do with the guys they signed.

And not only would starting the season with Sanchez, Osuna and Hutch in the rotation with zero depth be incredibly risky, they would then need to completely rebuild the back end of the bullpen, which would cost them huge dollars based on the early free agent signings, which, again, would require a massive payroll increase that was never coming.

Again, it sucks, but it has everything to do with Rogers unwillingness to spend massive dollars not with some sort of value judgement of Price vs. Dickey/Happ/Estrada.

[raptors999]

Yes, having David Price would be awesome but it was never an (a) or (b) of (a) sign David Price or (b) sign Happ, Estrada and Dickey. They never had any intention of signing Price cause it was too much money. Period. Full stop. If they signed Price they would have had nada, zilch, zero to spend anywhere else. No one likes it but it isn't really hard to understand that it has nothing to do with the guys they signed.

And not only would starting the season with Sanchez, Osuna and Hutch in the rotation with zero depth be incredibly risky, they would then need to completely rebuild the back end of the bullpen, which would cost them huge dollars based on the early free agent signings, which, again, would require a massive payroll increase that was never coming.

Again, it sucks, but it has everything to do with Rogers unwillingness to spend massive dollars not with some sort of value judgement of Price vs. Dickey/Happ/Estrada.

Go in on Price - Stroman as the 1-2 then fill out with Sanchez-Osuna-Hutch-Chavez okay with Estrada as the 3rd. Pitching is always a gamble and unless a couple cheap arms develop the team isnt going anywhere long term anyway

[slaw]

Go in on Price - Stroman as the 1-2 then fill out with Sanchez-Osuna-Hutch-Chavez okay with Estrada as the 3rd. Pitching is always a gamble and unless a couple cheap arms develop the team isnt going anywhere long term anyway

They were never, ever in on Price. Just like when Stroman becomes a free agent he will be gone somewhere else. Rogers isn't committing 7 years, 200 million to a pitcher. It ain't happening. Not unless ownership changes. Rogers responsibility is to maximize shareholder value not to win baseball games.

[raptors999]

They were never, ever in on Price. Just like when Stroman becomes a free agent he will be gone somewhere else. Rogers isn't committing 7 years, 200 million to a pitcher. It ain't happening. Not unless ownership changes. Rogers responsibility is to maximize shareholder value not to win baseball games.

How i feel too and if they could they will dump Tulo. Cant believe the years paying Buerhle and Reyes not to mention all the other AA crap and now they cheap out

[slaw]

How i feel too and if they could they will dump Tulo. Cant believe the years paying Buerhle and Reyes not to mention all the other AA crap and now they cheap out

Maybe, thing is, no one else was giving Price 7/217 either. The Cardinals weren't in at that price and neither were the Cubs, Dodgers, Yanks or Angels. So, none of the big market/big spending teams bit except Boston. That should maybe tell you something, too, especially given that it's Dombrowski making the call.

[Bendit]

How i feel too and if they could they will dump Tulo. Cant believe the years paying Buerhle and Reyes not to mention all the other AA crap and now they cheap out

There is a new sheriff at Rogers since the Marlins/Dickey acquisitions and $ commitment...ceo Guy Lawrence. Possibly he has other views on budgetary matters. Also, old man Rogers' son is at least figuratively the face of ownership in baseball matters. He doesn't talk much so who knows (except he wanted to keep AA around enough to offer him a 5 yr. deal at a significant raise...but this may have been just for pr purposes).

Wonder how they are going to handle the Encarnacion "demand"?

[slaw]

Wonder how they are going to handle the Encarnacion "demand"?

That and the Bautista stuff will tell you where they are going. If they let both of those guys walk then we're back into 5 year plans, etc. I'd like to believe it depends on performance and how successful the team is but I acknowledge that all of that is unlikely to matter much.

[Wild-ling#1]

There is a new sheriff at Rogers since the Marlins/Dickey acquisitions and $ commitment...ceo Guy Lawrence. Possibly he has other views on budgetary matters. Also, old man Rogers' son is at least figuratively the face of ownership in baseball matters. He doesn't talk much so who knows (except he wanted to keep AA around enough to offer him a 5 yr. deal at a significant raise...but this may have been just for pr purposes).

Wonder how they are going to handle the Encarnacion "demand"?

interesting. I don't think they'll keep both. Big $. Still a very potent offense without one of 'em.

So I'd guess they'll try to reach an understanding with Bautista first. About $, years and the DH position.

He's the more consistent hitter and a true "face" of the franchise. And he sure looked dangerous in the playoffs. Not every "talent" succeeds there (He'll re-live the bat-flip moment forever - unless it is eclipsed by other moments ...).

[Bendit]

That and the Bautista stuff will tell you where they are going. If they let both of those guys walk then we're back into 5 year plans, etc. I'd like to believe it depends on performance and how successful the team is but I acknowledge that all of that is unlikely to matter much.

An obvious option is to ride their last year ('16) ...see how the team does...and possibly trade them for prospects at the deadline. Or if the team is on a roll let them walk at years end (they might try to retain 1) and get first round picks when they sign as f/as. The new brass much be itching to show their chops at talent mining/picking.

[Joey]

The fact that we were THIS close to making the World Series only a few short months ago, and we are now discussing trading our best players for prospects, really shows you how terribly this off-season has gone ... LOL