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  • Just clicked on this thread to see the carnage.... few thoughts:

    1. I have no problem with the Jays rebuilding. The problem to my mind was that this management team was brought in, didn't believe in the team, but both them and ownership refused to blow it up cause they wanted that sweet, sweet ticket money. Fine. But not having the courage of their convictions left the team in limbo for two years.... and now the rebuild is even longer.

    2. Following from #1, they got nothing, zilch, nada for a laundry list of players. That's fine to me if you're a legit playoff contender going for one last gasp and it doesn't work out but they weren't.

    3. Has any player leaving Toronto had anything good to say about the new management team or ownership? That can't be good.

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    • slaw wrote: View Post
      Just clicked on this thread to see the carnage.... few thoughts:

      1. I have no problem with the Jays rebuilding. The problem to my mind was that this management team was brought in, didn't believe in the team, but both them and ownership refused to blow it up cause they wanted that sweet, sweet ticket money. Fine. But not having the courage of their convictions left the team in limbo for two years.... and now the rebuild is even longer.

      2. Following from #1, they got nothing, zilch, nada for a laundry list of players. That's fine to me if you're a legit playoff contender going for one last gasp and it doesn't work out but they weren't.

      3. Has any player leaving Toronto had anything good to say about the new management team or ownership? That can't be good.
      I believe, as Joey said above, Rogers tightened the purse strings after 2 cracks at it at that HIGH payroll. I think Beeston and AA kind of went "rogue" as Beeston was retiring, and said fuck it Alex enough treadmill, go for it. At that point the fans got CRAZY hype and it was a runaway train that Rogers couldn't cancel quite yet. Shapiro was brought in to tighten the purse strings again. Now we're a shoe string team. I'll believe it when I see it that we'll one day, when close, acquire guys the caliber Donaldson, Tulo, Price, Martin etc again.
      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

      Comment


      • Do the Jays get decent ratings even when they suck? The other day I had the radio on and there was just a bunch of baseball talk. Yet the team apparently sucks. Raptors are really good, and we barely here a peep.

        Are there more casuals that like a bad team like the Jays over a good team like the Raptors? Is basketball just always going to be a fringe sport in this country?

        I don't really get the baseball hype personally. It's a summer sport and isn't it America's national sport? Did the Jays success in the 90's really create so much fandom that people still stick around 20 years later? Are people watching because we had success with those old farts a few years ago (yet still didn't get to the finals)?

        I just find the sport so boring. Yet the talking heads go on and on about it. The attraction to this sport in this country is very weird especially since the team has been so awful for so long.

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        • planetmars wrote: View Post
          Do the Jays get decent ratings even when they suck? Yes. The other day I had the radio on and there was just a bunch of baseball talk. Yet the team apparently sucks. Raptors are really good, and we barely here a peep.

          Are there more casuals that like a bad team like the Jays over a good team like the Raptors? Tons more, especially 40 and over, even higher the older you get. Is basketball just always going to be a fringe sport in this country? Quite likely, at least for our lifetime. Hockey will always be king and culturally they are just so far apart on the spectrum.

          I don't really get the baseball hype personally. It's a summer sport and isn't it America's national sport? Old people like watching it daily after the soap operas. Did the Jays success in the 90's really create so much fandom that people still stick around 20 years later? Are people watching because we had success with those old farts a few years ago (yet still didn't get to the finals)?

          I just find the sport so boring. Yet the talking heads go on and on about it. The attraction to this sport in this country is very weird especially since the team has been so awful for so long.
          to sum it up: baseball is huge among the aging, who still have time to watch 4 hours of tv and still have cable. It is having trouble picking up younger fans. But I don't think basketball will ever over take NHL, or NFL/CFL, and will take a couple decades to threaten baseball. Even my younger friends, more prefer Jays over Raptors
          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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          • Yeah okay old people. Makes sense.

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            • KeonClark wrote: View Post

              to sum it up: baseball is huge among the aging, who still have time to watch 4 hours of tv and still have cable. It is having trouble picking up younger fans. But I don't think basketball will ever over take NHL, or NFL/CFL, and will take a couple decades to threaten baseball. Even my younger friends, more prefer Jays over Raptors
              Depends where you live and what demographics. In my age group and city, basketball doesn't resonate with people cause casual sports fans didn't grow up with it and most kids didn't play it. My kids can go into TimBits next fall but they have zero interest in hockey. It was a nightmare just trying to get them on skates this winter. They are really interested in basketball and baseball - the sports dad played and watches - even though they are way too young for either.

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              • Shapiro wasn't satisfied with his cameo in "Moneyball". He wants his own Sequel.

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                • I will give a DS patented virtual beer to anyone who can name 6 2019 blue jays batters without cheating
                  It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                  • I think everyone in the starting lineup is hovering near the Mendoza line right now..... These guys are really struggling to hit. Every pitcher that comes in we make look like a Cy Young candidate.

                    Long year ahead... not Oriole like.. but still need the visine to watch these guys.

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                    • Atkins and Shapeero are ruining our Blue Jays. Fuck those guys.

                      If they truly want to compete by 2021 then Stroman shouldn't be going anywhere. He's right to call them "small town cheap".

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                      • Joey wrote: View Post
                        Atkins and Shapeero are ruining our Blue Jays. Fuck those guys.

                        If they truly want to compete by 2021 then Stroman shouldn't be going anywhere. He's right to call them "small town cheap".
                        LOL, this team isn't competing in 2021. They have some possibly good young position players (Guerrero, Gurriel, Biggio, Bichette) but none are game changers despite the Rogers media hype. They have zero pitching and no capacity to attract meaningful free agents in the short term.

                        Jays are miles away from competing in the AL East.

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                        • slaw wrote: View Post

                          LOL, this team isn't competing in 2021. They have some possibly good young position players (Guerrero, Gurriel, Biggio, Bichette) but none are game changers despite the Rogers media hype. They have zero pitching and no capacity to attract meaningful free agents in the short term.

                          Jays are miles away from competing in the AL East.
                          I understand. But Atkins is on record as saying they want to compete by 2021. That's not my timeline. Either he actually does, and he should keep Stroman; or he doesn't, and he should just be honest about it. Don't start throwing Stro under the bus.

                          Comment


                          • Joey wrote: View Post

                            I understand. But Atkins is on record as saying they want to compete by 2021. That's not my timeline. Either he actually does, and he should keep Stroman; or he doesn't, and he should just be honest about it. Don't start throwing Stro under the bus.
                            They've mishandled the Stroman situation for a long time and there is no salvaging it now. As soon as they didn't offer him a contract in the offseason it was over. Personally, I've always liked Stroman but there is no sense extending him at this point.

                            The bigger issue is this: other than Pillar, is there a single player that has left this team in the last few years that has left on good terms with this management team? I can't think of one. Then, last year, you had Vlad mad about the lack of a call-up and this year it is Bichette and both have been very public. You put all this together and, while you can say what you want about Stroman being an ass (and he is), there is pretty clearly and issue with how this management team deals with its players. You can't be on good terms with everyone you get rid of but you also shouldn't be on bad terms with them and, apparently, everyone else.

                            Comment


                            • slaw wrote: View Post

                              They've mishandled the Stroman situation for a long time and there is no salvaging it now. As soon as they didn't offer him a contract in the offseason it was over. Personally, I've always liked Stroman but there is no sense extending him at this point.

                              The bigger issue is this: other than Pillar, is there a single player that has left this team in the last few years that has left on good terms with this management team? I can't think of one. Then, last year, you had Vlad mad about the lack of a call-up and this year it is Bichette and both have been very public. You put all this together and, while you can say what you want about Stroman being an ass (and he is), there is pretty clearly and issue with how this management team deals with its players. You can't be on good terms with everyone you get rid of but you also shouldn't be on bad terms with them and, apparently, everyone else.
                              Precisely my thoughts on all of it. This management is the definition of inept in my opinion, when it comes to player management and player relations.

                              And not only players leaving on bad terms, players leaving and getting NOTHING in return. Like, NOOOOTHING. Lol

                              Comment


                              • Joey wrote: View Post

                                Precisely my thoughts on all of it. This management is the definition of inept in my opinion, when it comes to player management and player relations.

                                And not only players leaving on bad terms, players leaving and getting NOTHING in return. Like, NOOOOTHING. Lol
                                I'm not so sure it's all about management as I think ownership has a lot to do with it, too. This management team was brought in after the 2015 season and it was crystal clear that they did not like not only the major league roster but everything about how the team was run. Then, instead of having the courage of their convictions, they were afraid of rocking the boat and Rogers was afraid of losing money by re-booting the team. Then, instead of biting the bullet in 2017, the pressure to get fans in the seats and in front of tvs led to the decision to run back a shell of a roster for the better part of two seasons.

                                One of the results of that decision back in 2016 was, as you note, that basically that entire roster of vets was ultimately lost for no return but it also delayed a rebuild by two full seasons while they spun their wheels. Ultimately, I think ownership was behind most of these decisions - Rogers has never wanted to be bad and never wanted to spend enough to be good.

                                In fairness, I think you have to management five years. The problem the current guys have is that they largely squandered three of them....

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