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  • #16
    Aegon Targaryen is going to Make Westeros Great Again.

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    • #17

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      • #18
        Intense episode, but I'm unimpressed about the Night King's death. I expected him to last until the very end.

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        • #19
          Nilanka wrote: View Post
          Intense episode, but I'm unimpressed about the Night King's death. I expected him to last until the very end.
          just way he died seems so unimpressive to me. like with all the hype and lore of the Knight king I expected t was going to take something spectacular to kill him. also the scenes with the dragons flying around not knowing where to go seemed unnecessary and has me screaming "what the hell hell are they doing" was it super dark and hard to see some of the scenes for anyone else? thought that was weird. I like theons and melasandres storyline the best. thought we might see some big storyline behind jamie but I guess that's still coming.
          To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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          • #20
            Nilanka wrote:
            Intense episode, but I'm unimpressed about the Night King's death. I expected him to last until the very end.
            bertarapsfan wrote: View Post

            just way he died seems so unimpressive to me. like with all the hype and lore of the Knight king I expected t was going to take something spectacular to kill him. also the scenes with the dragons flying around not knowing where to go seemed unnecessary and has me screaming "what the hell hell are they doing" was it super dark and hard to see some of the scenes for anyone else? thought that was weird. I like theons and melasandres storyline the best. thought we might see some big storyline behind jamie but I guess that's still coming.
            I figured they'd save the last few episodes for clean up and killing Cersei. I was super happy with the epic kill by Arya. I mean, how much more spectacular can you get than Dany flying over head and the "Dracarus" calling for the fire ball ... so dope ... but that didn't do it ... so then I'd figured it was going to take the most bad ass assassin in Westeros to do it. So fucking good. Don't forget, Bran did give Arya that dagger for a reason.

            Happy Jorah, Theon, Red Lady and Beric all got solid closure to their arcs as well. Good deaths all around. Pretty much exactly who I figured would die. Thought we might lose Greyworm as well, but I think I saw him at the end.

            Oo and the Little Bear! Her Giant kill was solid as well.

            That episode was too fucking stressful though. Their whole plan had waaaay too many holes in it. Super frustrating. Lol
            Last edited by Joey; Mon Apr 29th, 2019, 07:00 PM.

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            • #21
              Whoever drafted up that battle plan should have read Battle Plans For Dummies. They send out their horsemen into the darkness for what reason? I mean they should have been saved and sent to the flank when the horde was up on the spearmen. They have flaming catapults that they choose to use for just a minute, why not expend all the ammo first and light up the darkness of the battlefield and hopefully thin the horde before it arrives? Speaking of darkness, was it just me or was it really hard to see what was going on in this episode?

              Anyway, I liked the episode in general but it also felt like a letdown given how this was building for the whole series and given the standards of the series to date. It's like they never had a meeting to discuss all past story lines and how they might tie them together here at this critical moment (like the Avengers writers clearly did with Endgame). The build up to the Night King/Jon Snow showdown was a bust and how did Arya get through the horde and all those generals to get the jump on the Night King? I mean she had a super power she could have used to do it and would have made a lot of sense but no, instead she inexplicably waltzed in there somehow (after having no answer for them in the castle) and whoomp there it is. She saved Bran, who also seems like a total bust of a character unless something happens to explain why he's really important in these next three episodes... Something better than he remembers the history of humanity, which he never shares with anyone besides to tell Jon that he's banging his cousin. Because that's the best use he can find for a power that allows him to recount all of humanity's past mistakes.

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              • #22
                Yeah, I thought Arya killing Night King was laughably bad. I mean, she barely escaped from the library with low-level white walkers hearing her blood dripping, but she has no problem getting around white walker lieutenants undetected? Just silly. 7.5 seasons of story arc, and all it took was Arya hiding in a tree.

                We have to assume that killing Cersei will be a walk in the park going forward. Everyone else can hang back in Winterfell and just wait for Arya to finish things. She's the best assassin in Westeros, after all.

                Dany is a grade-A moron for landing her dragon in the middle of the battlefield.

                Why did anyone think it was a good idea to build fire trenches BEHIND your army? The writers clearly didn't have any military advisers on their payroll, lol.

                Bran doing cool tricks to give us a bird's eye view - the definition of useless.

                This episode didn't need to be 82 minutes....at all.

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                • #23

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                  • #24
                    Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    Yeah, I thought Arya killing Night King was laughably bad. I mean, she barely escaped from the library with low-level white walkers hearing her blood dripping, but she has no problem getting around white walker lieutenants undetected? Just silly. 7.5 seasons of story arc, and all it took was Arya hiding in a tree.

                    We have to assume that killing Cersei will be a walk in the park going forward. Everyone else can hang back in Winterfell and just wait for Arya to finish things. She's the best assassin in Westeros, after all.

                    Dany is a grade-A moron for landing her dragon in the middle of the battlefield.

                    Why did anyone think it was a good idea to build fire trenches BEHIND your army? The writers clearly didn't have any military advisers on their payroll, lol.

                    Bran doing cool tricks to give us a bird's eye view - the definition of useless.

                    This episode didn't need to be 82 minutes....at all.
                    I agree on all your points. One would think this would have been an episode in the works for years but that can't be the case because it looks like it was put together by someone who didn't have others challenging the story.

                    For the Arya bit imagine how great it would have been to have Bran surrounded closely by the white walkers and then the Night King arrives and slowly walks up to him face to face and as he draws his blade, a sword impales him from behind and the camera moves to show it was a white walker who did it. Then they all die like was shown in the show, except for that one white walker. The white walker then rips off a mask to reveal Arya. Wouldn't something like that have put a more proper capstone on her whole story arc? I think everyone could have gotten behind that, myself included but I'd still be left wondering what the heck is the point of Jon Snow now or really ever? I feel like the book won't play out like the show and we've seen a slow but significant and consistent decline in the story telling since the show moved past the books. So many squandered opportunities over the last three seasons.

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                    • #25
                      Apollo wrote: View Post

                      I agree on all your points. One would think this would have been an episode in the works for years but that can't be the case because it looks like it was put together by someone who didn't have others challenging the story.

                      For the Arya bit imagine how great it would have been to have Bran surrounded closely by the white walkers and then the Night King arrives and slowly walks up to him face to face and as he draws his blade, a sword impales him from behind and the camera moves to show it was a white walker who did it. Then they all die like was shown in the show, except for that one white walker. The white walker then rips off a mask to reveal Arya. Wouldn't something like that have put a more proper capstone on her whole story arc? I think everyone could have gotten behind that, myself included but I'd still be left wondering what the heck is the point of Jon Snow now or really ever? I feel like the book won't play out like the show and we've seen a slow but significant and consistent decline in the story telling since the show moved past the books. So many squandered opportunities over the last three seasons.
                      White Walkers explode when they die ... there's no way she'd be able to take their face ...


                      And what do you mean "whats the point of Jon"? Jon is the true heir to the Iron Throne ... there's still plenty for him to do! His destiny wasn't to kill the Night King, it's to BE the King. The show is called "Game of Thrones" after all. That is the Endgame.
                      Last edited by Joey; Tue Apr 30th, 2019, 11:37 AM.

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                      • #26
                        Apollo wrote: View Post

                        I agree on all your points. One would think this would have been an episode in the works for years but that can't be the case because it looks like it was put together by someone who didn't have others challenging the story.

                        For the Arya bit imagine how great it would have been to have Bran surrounded closely by the white walkers and then the Night King arrives and slowly walks up to him face to face and as he draws his blade, a sword impales him from behind and the camera moves to show it was a white walker who did it. Then they all die like was shown in the show, except for that one white walker. The white walker then rips off a mask to reveal Arya. Wouldn't something like that have put a more proper capstone on her whole story arc? I think everyone could have gotten behind that, myself included but I'd still be left wondering what the heck is the point of Jon Snow now or really ever? I feel like the book won't play out like the show and we've seen a slow but significant and consistent decline in the story telling since the show moved past the books. So many squandered opportunities over the last three seasons.
                        Ya, it really did feel like it was written in 1 sitting. Disappointing.

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                        • #27
                          Joey wrote: View Post

                          White Walkers explode when they die ... there's no way she'd be able to take their face ...


                          And what do you mean "whats the point of Jon"? Jon is the true heir to the Iron Throne ... there's still plenty for him to do! His destiny wasn't to kill the Night King, it's to BE the King. The show is called "Game of Thrones" after all. That is the Endgame.
                          My bad, I meant wights. They don't explode.

                          My guess is Jon Snow won't be sitting on the iron throne in the last scene. It'll be Dany or Cersei or another female character in my opinion. The show has shifted from very masculine to very feminine. I don't expect that to change now. My guess is Jon dies in the last episode.

                          There isn't even a hint that Jon will pursue the crown and they've played him up to be very humble and an effective but reluctant leader.
                          Last edited by Apollo; Tue Apr 30th, 2019, 12:14 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Apollo wrote: View Post

                            My bad, I meant wights. They don't explode.

                            My guess is Jon Snow won't be sitting on the iron throne in the last scene. It'll be Dany or Cersei or another female character in my opinion. The show has shifted from very masculine to very feminine. I don't expect that to change now. My guess is Jon dies in the last episode.

                            There isn't even a hint that Jon will pursue the crown and they've played him up to be very humble and an effective but reluctant leader.
                            They set the whole 1st season up for Ned to be main character of the entire show, and central figure to the story, and then cut his head off. GRRM sets people up all the time for them not to fulfill their perceived destiny.

                            I agree that Jon probably won't sit on the throne, but that's not the point. To me, the whole point of the "Game of Thrones" was to see who (and how) that Throne will be conquered. It is Jons throne to lose now, and how/why he chooses to abdicate that throne, or under what circumstances he is denied it, will be the true finale in my books.

                            I'm also not sure what you mean by they've changed from "very masculine to very feminine"? There were always seeds that the female leads of the show would end up being the majority of the protagonists by the end, since their arcs were always some of the most elaborate and complex (Sansa, Arya, Dany, Cersei). I don't see that as a shift at all.

                            Anyway, that's what makes for a good show, is it gets people talking and debating.

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                            • #29
                              The build up throughout the show from season one with Jon Snow was to join the Night's Watch and face the threat on the other side of the wall. He was even resurrected from death by Melisandre, Fire Priestess. His main purpose then was to rally support to face the horde and the Night King. Seven full seasons of building him up to the showdown with the Night King and for nothing really. You may call that typical of GOT but I disagree. Examples you may dig up never had such dedicated development spanning many seasons and in those cases it was usually a major plot twist meant to set up something else that was brewing. This wasn't a major plot twist. We knew the Night King was likely to die and on this particular battlefield. I think this is a disconnect from what GRRM was building. He had no involvement with the season at all and has had little since season 4, the same point where things began to slide downward slowly in terms of story. Anyway, I hope they don't squander massive investment in Jon Snow but it looks like they already have.

                              As for the feminine comment, I think it's very clear personally. You can say seeds were planted but I can say many other seeds were planted as well. Almost only the females are sprouting/blooming/whatever. Season One was male dominated. Season four still pretty male dominated. Season eight is heavily female dominated to the point of Jamie grovelling for forgiveness to Dany and Sanza and them only showing leniency after he is defended by another woman. He then grovels more to serve under a woman on the battle field who has not led a campaign before. We then see a little girl make the ultimate sacrifice to one shot a giant after it killed a bunch of men. We then see a great warrior like the Mountain pitifully sobbing like a little baby while Arya, who can't be much more than five feet tall, is just totaly destroying the horde(what happened to those mad skills inside moments later? Hmm) Anyway, I'm not complaining about the shift(I do believe the writing could be better though), I'm just pointing out the clear shift from masculine to feminine and you're right, the beauty of this stuff is there are different interpretations to complex stories.
                              Last edited by Apollo; Tue Apr 30th, 2019, 03:57 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Apollo wrote: View Post
                                I think this is a disconnect from what GRRM was building. He had no involvement with the season at all and has had little since season 4
                                That's not true, though, according to GRRM. He gave Benioff and Weiss what he says was the skeleton of the remainder of the book series so that the show wouldn't deviate too much. Can't say whether B&W said "screw that" and went their own way, but I doubt it. I think this was largely the same intent GRRM had for how the series (of books) would close.
                                Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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