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  • JawsGT
    started a topic Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

    Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

    I didn't notice a thread for Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series, and given the popularity of the TV show, I'd figure I'd start one. Few people I know have actually read all the books to date, so I really have no one to discuss the written series with. As good as the show is, the books are soooo much better!!

    I actually find it hard to believe that anyone that hasn't read the books could even follow the TV series, but everyone seems to love it.

    So, if you are into the show or the written series, please feel free to discuss here, but be aware that if you are not up to date with the books, this thread may contain MASSIVE SPOILERS for you!

    I read the first book, A Game of Thrones, within a year or two of it's publication (mid 90's believe it or not) and it was the first fantasy novel I had ever read. After the prologue and the first chapter I was thoroughly hooked and the series is still my favorite fantasy epic that I have read to date. I have read LOTR and the Hobbit, the Wheel of Time, some of the Sword of Truth by Goodkind, a bunch of Salvatore's Drizzt novels, Jack Whyte's historical fiction about the start of Camelod and King Arthur, and some of Terry Brooks works, and Martins A Song of Ice and Fire is by far the best and Jordan's A Wheel of Time a somewhat close second.

    Poor Robert Jordan didn't survive long enough to complete his epic, but luckily someone else picked it up and finished it for him. Given the rate at which Martin writes, I often wonder if the same fate will befall him and the series not be completed before he passes. Furthermore, I also fear that the show will catch up to the books. The show is going into season 4, which I believe will be some combo of books 3 and 4, and we are currently waiting for the release of book 6. To the best of my knowledge, the series was only supposed to be 6 books total originally, but now I think the estimate is at 7. Nonetheless I find it hard to believe that it can be completed with just 7 books, as an ending seems so far away.

    Things I really like:

    1. The fact that each chapter is written from the point of view of a different character. This is great, and as new characters get added, the story just gets better and better. But the fact that the readers ability to learn about Martin's world is limited by the narrative for the specific characters he writes about is brilliant. Characters you hate become characters you love, and maybe vice versa.

    2. The number of important characters is almost overwhelming. As new characters are introduced, you start to wonder if you were reading about the most important ones in the beginning. The story is huge, and each book only focuses on a fraction of what is actually happening during the timeline the book covers. All you can think is, what the hell else is going on that I know nothing about...yet?

    3. The fact that Martin is seemingly willing to kill off just about any character. The first book demonstrated that quite shockingly. I doubt anyone would have predicted Eddard Stark losing his head near the end of A Game of Thrones, as he appeared to be one of the most important characters in the series. It blew my mind when I read it.

    4. Tyrion Lannister. His character is one of the best characters I have ever read in a book. I hope he fucks every whore in Westeros before it's all said and done.

    5. The increasing nature of the fantasy element. The first book had very little fantasy in it, but as the series progresses things get more and more fantastical, and it really makes the series that much better by not suffocating the reader early on with all sorts of crazy crap you might find in a typical fantasy series.

    Thoughts on the series A Song of Ice and Fire?

  • Apollo
    replied
    Joey wrote: View Post

    Well, I mean, they do attempt to explain that, albeit poorly, in a throw away sentence where they say something along the lines of "Well, we'll always need somewhere to send Bastards and Criminals" - so to the show, it's essentially just a Penal Colony now? And the wall is basically just the border of the Wildlings land? I'm meh on that though.

    For me, the best and easiest explanation is that no one had seen a White Walker in Thousands of years by the start of the Game of Thrones show (like literally the same amount of time between us and Jesus) ... and they still had the watch, and maintained the traditions long after no one really knew if they were simply acting out an ages old fairy tale or not, and eventually convinced themselves that the Wall was for the Wildlings .. so who knows, 20 years from now, when the Wildlings start getting "Wild" again, who knows ...
    That's an interesting idea but it doesn't explain what they're doing.

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  • SkywalkerAC
    replied
    I was happy with the finale.

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  • Joey
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Question: If the Night King was killed and there's a massive hole in the wall, plus the North is at peace with the Free Folk, why is there a Nights Watch? What are they doing?
    Well, I mean, they do attempt to explain that, albeit poorly, in a throw away sentence where they say something along the lines of "Well, we'll always need somewhere to send Bastards and Criminals" - so to the show, it's essentially just a Penal Colony now? And the wall is basically just the border of the Wildlings land? I'm meh on that though.

    For me, the best and easiest explanation is that no one had seen a White Walker in Thousands of years by the start of the Game of Thrones show (like literally the same amount of time between us and Jesus) ... and they still had the watch, and maintained the traditions long after no one really knew if they were simply acting out an ages old fairy tale or not, and eventually convinced themselves that the Wall was for the Wildlings .. so who knows, 20 years from now, when the Wildlings start getting "Wild" again, who knows ...
    Last edited by Joey; Tue May 21st, 2019, 02:06 PM.

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  • Apollo
    replied

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  • RandomGuy
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Question: If the Night King was killed and there's a massive hole in the wall, plus the North is at peace with the Free Folk, why is there a Nights Watch? What are they doing?
    Don't bother... There's so many loose ends and illogical shit out there that you don't really need to overthink it. It's just poor writing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    Question: If the Night King was killed and there's a massive hole in the wall, plus the North is at peace with the Free Folk, why is there a Nights Watch? What are they doing?

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    Binge watched season 8 last night.

    Throwing some of my comments in bullet form here:
    • I liked that I watched it in one go.. felt like it would be tough to watch live especially with week long breaks between episodes 2 and then 3
    • I enjoyed it overall though. I understand some of the angst but overall it was a good season.
    • Episode 3 was pretty awesome. Was on the edge of my seat for most of it. The darkness of it all was a let down, but it added a dimension to the scenes. I watched on a decent sized screen so it didn't really bug me too much. I know it would have been predictable but I was really hoping for Jon to get blasted by that dragon and still walk away unscathed.. and then some how still beat the Night King. Arya was a good second choice though. She needed to do something in this series after becoming a faceless man other than take down the Frey's. So that was her moment.
    • Wish the writers gave Jon more time to register the news that Sam and Bran gave him. That was a moment we all were waiting for since basically season 1 or 2. He was the rightful heir and they spent like 30 seconds on it? Just felt like there needed to be a little more there.
    • Really didn't mind Dany's turn there. And it was sort of coming. Felt like the writer's were hinting at it through the seasons. Maybe a bit rushed but all the people in her inner circle either died (Sir Jorah, Missandei, two of her dragons), or betrayed her (Tyrion - a few times, Varis, Jon). I mean she talked a big game about being ruthless all through the series and she delivered on her promise.
    • What I didn't like is how quick Jon killed her and how when Dany turned dark she stayed dark right through the end. That's a bit unlike her. She was always trying to figure out her place in the world and she wanted to both be loved and I listened to. What I would have liked is to have Dany see Jon and Tyrion's faces after what she did and then at that moment realize what she did was wrong. She killed innocent people.. even if that innocence was being used as a ploy by Cersei.. it should have affected her. If she discovered that she could have been redeemed. Asked her dragon to melt the iron throne (which it did), and then beg Jon to take her out for what she did. And then move forward with the same scenes (Grey Worm may not have seen the exchange and just saw Jon kill her queen, etc). Dany's end should have been a bigger moment.
    • The series finale was a bore but most series finales are. The last 20 minutes seemed like it took an hour of my life lol. But can't really complain I guess (most series finales can be boring).
    • The writers gave us closure for most of the biggest players on the board in a predicable but respectful way:
      • Jon got to go 'home'. He's a free folk and can live in the North with his friends (and direwolf) and not have to worry about ruling or the politics of any of it.
      • Sansa got to separate the North from the 7 kingdoms, and be queen.
      • Arya continues to be alone (like she likes it) and can do her thing
      • Tyrion is hand of the king again (but a good king)
      • Bran has a purpose
      • Jamie got to die next to Cersei
      • Brienne got to become a knight and gets to finish Jamie's story
      • Sam gets to be a maestre for the king
      • The hound got revenge on his brother (he died doing so, but his brother was a fricken zombie)
      • Bronn gets to be master of coin (thought that was a nice touch given the character)
      • Jorah died in battle defending his queen
    • Interesting to see how Martin would finish his books. I can see him going in some different directions. But it was a fantastic series. Going to go down as one of the best shows in history (not my favourite, but near the top for sure).

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  • Apollo
    replied
    Drogon went east, my guess back "home".

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  • Apollo
    replied
    I liked the idea going around last week that Bran controlled Drogon and this is why you didn't see Danny's face during the assault.

    Too bad she reaffirmed she's just crazy because that was an interesting idea. That the Night King infected Bran's mind to the point where he framed Dany for genocide.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joey
    replied
    Joey wrote: View Post

    If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on no one "wins" the throne, and instead Tyrion sits on the Council for the "United States of Westeros" type thing.
    Well, I wasn't too far off. Lol Especially considering the throne is melted, it's no longer the "Seven Kingdoms", and Bran seemingly has no interest in Governing ... yet ...

    I have a theory ...
    Bran was marked by the Night King ... it meant more than just a GPS tracker ... it was a transfer, just like how when the Night King touched the babies ... that silly theory of Bran being the Night King is semi-TRUE ... and he planned all the events of this season, knowing that telling Jon at that moment would set off the series of dominoes, leading to his ultimate crowning as king, and Jon (Aegon) killing his biggest threat, and then being banished to the Wall where he would renounce his rights a 2nd time ... Bran just needs to find the Drogon first before he can carry his final plan ... hence him just peacing out of the council meeting. Lol
    Last edited by Joey; Mon May 20th, 2019, 02:11 PM.

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  • Apollo
    replied
    From coffee houses to now bottled water, Westeros is becoming very modern.

    I'm sure Professor X will bring in many more modern amenities as King.

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  • Apollo
    replied

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  • tDotted
    replied
    I agree with this season feeling very rushed. I always thought they overdid Dany being a heroic figure in previous seasons, so the complete 180 in Episode 5 is shocking to say the least

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    So it takes place when men first discover Westeros?

    Have you read the Hedge Knight series? I'd love to see that brought to life by HBO.

    Leave a comment:

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