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  • SkywalkerAC
    started a topic Michael Jackson...

    Michael Jackson...

    Thought I'd take this out of the Movie thread.

    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post

    If y'all do a little research you'd find out that MJ was completely innocent. He was the most famous and powerful celeb to ever live, and with that came a lot of enemies and leaches. He was too nice to certain people and that led to all this. There's court documents showing all the evidence presented in the trial, and the FBI's 10 year search led to nothing but a art magazine featuring some kids in it, would hardly consider that child porn.

    The Chandler kid admitted that he lied because his father wanted money from MJ, his father then killed himself from guilt following MJ's unfortunate death.
    Not true:
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jo...ndler-jackson/

    MJ owns or owned 50% of Sony's catalog, including the Beatles. MJ repeatedly said "they want my catalog". I'm not sure if I believe that conspiracy but I would not be surprised. The lengths that people go for money and power should not be underestimated. MJ was an easy target because of how weird he was due to his tragic upbringing. The dude was a great guy and a once in a century type talent, we won't see anyone like him again for a long time, if ever.
    Sony bought the 50% ownership back for $750 mill, are you trying to posit some conspiracy theory here? Or just that he's too great of a guy to have done anything like molest multiple children?

  • Nilanka
    replied
    Late to the conversation.

    My take - There's just too much credible/genuine emotion, not just from just the two accusers, but also their parents, grandparents, spouses, siblings, etc. These aren't trained actors, but the heartbreak was evident for each of them. Really hard for me to not believe their stories.



    Having said that, I think it's perfectly fine to separate art from artist. Regardless of how I feel about MJ the person, his music will always be legendary to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    Wow, that is a pretty disturbing ruling.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkywalkerAC
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post

    Are you certain that too much time has elapsed to sue? Serious question, I don't know. I mean adults have gone after the RC church decades after abuses occurred under their "care". We have a real problem if a grown man or woman cannot seek justice and compensation for crimes committed against them when they were defenseless children. Time should not offer a pardon.
    Maybe it was a ruling, not a specific statute:

    https://pagesix.com/2017/12/20/judge...chael-jackson/

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post

    Correct, innocent until proven guilty is only the standard in a court of law.

    I think Wade Robson may have attempted a civil suit a few years ago after telling his wife what happened - it's in the doc from what I remember - but the crime was too far in the past.

    I took a quick look and couldn't find if they were paid anything substantial by the filmmakers.
    Are you certain that too much time has elapsed to sue? Serious question, I don't know. I mean adults have gone after the RC church decades after abuses occurred under their "care". We have a real problem if a grown man or woman cannot seek justice and compensation for crimes committed against them when they were defenseless children. Time should not offer a pardon.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkywalkerAC
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Innocent until proven guilty in the criminal court of justice. Guilty until proven innocent in the public court of opinion.

    Are these accusers from the documentary suing Michael Jackson's estate for damages? Are they receiving any payment from the documentary itself? Just curious.
    Correct, innocent until proven guilty is only the standard in a court of law. Would you hold that same standard if a member of your family had been abused

    I think Wade Robson may have attempted a civil suit a few years ago after telling his wife what happened - it's in the doc from what I remember - but the alleged crime was too far in the past.

    I took a quick look and couldn't find whether they were paid anything substantial by the filmmakers. But I wouldn't be surprised if there was some form of compensation for their time/stories as I think is common with these kinds of explosive interviews.
    Last edited by SkywalkerAC; Mon Mar 25th, 2019, 12:01 PM.

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  • Apollo
    replied
    Innocent until proven guilty in the criminal court of justice. Guilty until proven innocent in the public court of opinion.

    Are these accusers from the documentary suing Michael Jackson's estate for damages? Are they receiving any payment from the documentary itself? Just curious.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkywalkerAC
    replied

    Leave a comment:


  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    Mack North wrote: View Post

    Did you watch the Neverland doc? These people are seriously F'd up because of what that guy did. The parents are idiots for being seduced, but that dude was a sicko.
    Don't fall for that BS man, there's tons of videos and documents online supporting MJ's innocence

    Leave a comment:


  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post

    Jackson almost definitely would have been found guilty if Wade Robson, from this documentary, hadn't been a star witness for the defense.

    As for your question about class, I wouldn't be surprised if a kid from a middle class family is easier to groom than upper. They talk about it in the film - Michael was going to THEIR house for dinner, and the whole family bought into the fantasy.

    The parents may have been savvier as well. And both Caulkin (who seems to have some issues as he's matured, though maybe just from the child stardom) and Feldman achieved enormous success in their own right, making it more difficult for Jackson to establish the kind of dependence needed for this kind of long-term grooming.
    You're extremely gullible and fair weather if you just take the documentary as gospel. James Safechuck himself contradicted himself in the documentary, he claims he told his mother he was abused in 2005 and that his mother danced with joy when MJ died in 2009. But he has since claimed that he didn't realize it was abuse until he saw Robson being interviewed in 2013. So how exactly would you tell your mother you got abused if you didn't realize it until 2013, I smell bullshit.
    Also Wade Robson dated MJ's niece for a long time, and he cheated on her with Brittany Spears, leading to Spears and Timberlake breaking up. This dudes a sleezebag, there's so many holes in the stories of these two phony's. This MeToo movement has a lot of liars coming out pointing fingers trynna cash out.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkywalkerAC
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    First off, I haven't seen the doc yet.

    But I will ask why is it always the kids who come from ordinary homes who are middle class or lower who make the accusations? I mean Macaulay Culkin had no instances of anything going on. Corey Feldman spent a lot of time with MJ and is on record many times saying nothing happened. Neither of these gentleman will ever be hurting for money and Corey Feldman is a guy who's spoken out numerous times about child abuse in Hollywood. In particular abuses committed against him and his friend Haim. Who is it? It was a friend of theirs but not MJ.

    I'm don't know what to believe with this one but just the accusations alone coming up over and over can't help but taint the man's reputation. He's never been found guilty of sexual offenses but yet they got Cosby, he clearly was up to no good and so I ask why couldn't they get MJ if he was truly guilty? I mean it's not like they didn't go after him every time someone pointed the finger. He was under siege by accusations, the feds and media for decades. He was a smooth criminal to get away with it, if true.

    Did he have issues? Oh yeah, big time, he was off the wall but did he abuse kids? I don't know man. Either way, all the accusations ruined his music for me. Just the chance that it is true gives me the creeps and maybe that's not fair but it's human nature.
    Jackson almost definitely would have been found guilty if Wade Robson, from this documentary, hadn't been a star witness for the defense.

    As for your question about class, I wouldn't be surprised if a kid from a middle class family is easier to groom than upper. They talk about it in the film - Michael was going to THEIR house for dinner, and the whole family bought into the fantasy.

    The parents may have been savvier as well. And both Caulkin (who seems to have some issues as he's matured, though maybe just from the child stardom) and Feldman achieved enormous success in their own right, making it more difficult for Jackson to establish the kind of dependence needed for this kind of long-term grooming.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    KeonClark wrote: View Post

    Yeah, but when that Billie Jean beat hits, and you're a few drinks deep and near a dance floor...
    But I survive on dance floors by blending into the crowd in order to hide my incredibly bad moves.

    Leave a comment:


  • KeonClark
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    First off, I haven't seen the doc yet.

    But I will ask why is it always the kids who come from ordinary homes who are middle class or lower who make the accusations? I mean Macaulay Culkin had no instances of anything going on. Corey Feldman spent a lot of time with MJ and is on record many times saying nothing happened. Neither of these gentleman will ever be hurting for money and Corey Feldman is a guy who's spoken out numerous times about child abuse in Hollywood. In particular abuses committed against him and his friend Haim. Who is it? It was a friend of theirs but not MJ.

    I'm don't know what to believe with this one but just the accusations alone coming up over and over can't help but taint the man's reputation. He's never been found guilty of sexual offenses but yet they got Cosby, he clearly was up to no good and so I ask why couldn't they get MJ if he was truly guilty? I mean it's not like they didn't go after him every time someone pointed the finger. He was under siege by accusations, the feds and media for decades. He was a smooth criminal to get away with it, if true.

    Did he have issues? Oh yeah, big time, he was off the wall but did he abuse kids? I don't know man. Either way, all the accusations ruined his music for me. Just the chance that it is true gives me the creeps and maybe that's not fair but it's human nature.
    Yeah, but when that Billie Jean beat hits, and you're a few drinks deep and near a dance floor...



    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    First off, I haven't seen the doc yet.

    But I will ask why is it always the kids who come from ordinary homes who are middle class or lower who make the accusations? I mean Macaulay Culkin had no instances of anything going on. Corey Feldman spent a lot of time with MJ and is on record many times saying nothing happened. Neither of these gentleman will ever be hurting for money and Corey Feldman is a guy who's spoken out numerous times about child abuse in Hollywood. In particular abuses committed against him and his friend Haim. Who is it? It was a friend of theirs but not MJ.

    I'm don't know what to believe with this one but just the accusations alone coming up over and over can't help but taint the man's reputation. He's never been found guilty of sexual offenses but yet they got Cosby, he clearly was up to no good and so I ask why couldn't they get MJ if he was truly guilty? I mean it's not like they didn't go after him every time someone pointed the finger. He was under siege by accusations, the feds and media for decades. He was a smooth criminal to get away with it, if true.

    Did he have issues? Oh yeah, big time, he was off the wall but did he abuse kids? I don't know man. Either way, all the accusations ruined his music for me. Just the chance that it is true gives me the creeps and maybe that's not fair but it's human nature.

    Leave a comment:


  • Miekenstien
    replied
    SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post

    The kid he settled with in a civil suit for 20+ million was Gavin Arviso, who has all but gone into hiding I think, not these kids.
    Was this the kid that saw his dick while he pissed?

    Leave a comment:

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