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  • slaw wrote: View Post

    Go look at the neighbourhoods after the protests a few years ago. See how many empty concrete lots there are. Hell, there are places like Newark that haven't recovered from the 60s riots.

    Our of curiosity, I have a question for the pro-riot people: why aren't the riots at the houses of the mayors and governors and other politicians running the cities/states? Wouldn't that be far more effective than burning down the neighbour's bakery or the local Nike store? I'm not advocating it but if you want a revolution you take the politicians and bureaucrats and you tar and feather them and march them down the street or you hang them from lamp posts - you don't beat up the local convenience store owner.
    Good points and I can't say, can only comment from clips I've seen (limited perspective, for sure) - there are plenty of videos showing the people initiating breaking shop windows & looting are not likely with the protestors. A bunch of them have been confronted on video by legitimate protetstors, protestors have tried stopping some of them from looting, and community members have come the next day in a bunch of places to help clean up.

    In some cities, police are prioritizing protecting those targets you mentioned. There are actual armored vehicles and riot police lined up around key government buildings to prevent any access there.

    And police are definitely in a tough spot in a bunch of these street confrontations, but there are also plenty of videos where the protestors are assembled peacefully and the police initiate the violence. Personally, I don't think driving into people with an SUV or firing rubber bullets and tear gas at a bunch of people sitting in the middle of the street is the right approach to the "get home it's curfew" problem, but that's just me. Did you see the Minneapolis clip of riot police firing a tear gas canister at people standing on their covered front porch? Too much of the police response has been telling of the overall problem - they're overmilitarized and have "respond to threat with violent confrontation" way too high on this list of whatever acronym they use to deescalate confrontation. Police inability to deescalate is a massive problem imho. Some countries require multiple years of post-secondary training to become a police officer. The US for sure and really Canada as well need to move in that direction. Some municipalities give you a few weeks of academy training then on the job and you're good to go. It's nuts, considering the situations officers are then put into and expected to respond to with the correct tools & skill set.
    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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    • Well thanks mod for moving posts here, I honestly thought this part of the forum was some foreign language group and never looked at it lol.

      2.5 years ago, this was a good write up by Bruce Arthur at the time and is still just as relevant, unfortunately: https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...rs-arthur.html
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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      • S.R. wrote: View Post

        Good points and I can't say, can only comment from clips I've seen (limited perspective, for sure) - there are plenty of videos showing the people initiating breaking shop windows & looting are not likely with the protestors. A bunch of them have been confronted on video by legitimate protetstors, protestors have tried stopping some of them from looting, and community members have come the next day in a bunch of places to help clean up.
        Oh, for sure. You have the anarchists and nihilists like the Antifa boys out there and the criminals who exploit the situation to steal and hurt people. And then the mob forms and you cannot control that. But that was sort of who I was talking about. Why are the criminals and pretend revolutionaries destroying stuff in poorer areas? Aren't these the people they profess to be helping?

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        • Bunkerboy looks in way over his head right now.

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          • slaw wrote: View Post

            Oh, for sure. You have the anarchists and nihilists like the Antifa boys out there and the criminals who exploit the situation to steal and hurt people. And then the mob forms and you cannot control that. But that was sort of who I was talking about. Why are the criminals and pretend revolutionaries destroying stuff in poorer areas? Aren't these the people they profess to be helping?
            The criminals aren't there to help anyone ... that's the point.

            The criminals are there to be criminals, and ultimately take away from and delegitimatize an otherwise legitimate protest.

            And while you blame the "Antifa boys", we for a fact that the "Proud Boys" are out there too doing the exact same thing. Neither are apart of any legitimate movement and should be taken as nothing more than thugs, and not tied to any political movement, because none wants either of them.

            Where do you stand on Neo-Fascist groups like Proud Boys actually? I assume you think they are equally as disruptive to the discourse? Yes?
            Last edited by Joey; Mon Jun 1st, 2020, 06:20 PM.

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            • Joey wrote: View Post

              The criminals aren't there to help anyone ... that's the point.

              The criminals are there to be criminals, and ultimately take away from and delegitimatize an otherwise legitimate protest.

              And while you site the "Antifa boys", you know the "Good Ol' Boys" are out there too doing the exact same thing. Neither are apart of any legitimate movement and should be taken as nothing more than thugs, and not tied to any political movement, because none wants either of them.
              Sorry, Joey, these riots are the left's Charlottesville. You get to own them. Or are you saying there are fine people on both sides?

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              • slaw wrote: View Post

                Sorry, Joey, these riots are the left's Charlottesville. You get to own them. Or are you saying there are fine people on both sides?
                "The Lefts Charlotteville"? What are you even on about? Honestly, after all these years, I don't even know why I bother trying to have a civil discussion with you. You don't even try anymore. As per usual, you once again didn't answer my question. Figured you'd dodge it anyway though.

                And no, there are not fine people on both sides. I literally just said that neither Antifa or Proud Boys are anything other than criminals, did I not? There are many many fine people choosing to peacefully protest though.

                So now I answered your question, you going to answer mine?

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                • Lol What a goof this guy is ... who thought this was a good idea? Definitely not the church he's standing in front of ...
                  https://news.yahoo.com/st-johns-fire...004306778.html

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                  • Joey wrote: View Post
                    Lol What a goof this guy is ... who thought this was a good idea? Definitely not the church he's standing in front of ...
                    https://news.yahoo.com/st-johns-fire...004306778.html

                    His ego was attacked on the weekend, hiding in a bunker after all his tough guy talk.

                    To me this looks like he way of trying to say he's not afraid. I think he is. Anyone who is despised by a group that large at their doorstep is going be scared. This photo fail is unlikely to change anything for him. Memes are coming in using the books he's holding of course. Some pretty funny but too low brow for me to want to post here.

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                    • Apollo wrote: View Post

                      His ego was attacked on the weekend, hiding in a bunker after all his tough guy talk.

                      To me this looks like he way of trying to say he's not afraid. I think he is. Anyone who is despised by a group that large at their doorstep is going be scared. This photo fail is unlikely to change anything for him. Memes are coming in using the books he's holding of course. Some pretty funny but too low brow for me to want to post here.
                      That's 100% what happened.

                      Surely there will be piles of litigation after this is done? Just for that photo op they tear gassed peacefully assembled protestors - before the curfew. Right to peaceful assembly is a core constitutional right.

                      Polarized politics are such a problem.
                      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                      • S.R. wrote: View Post

                        That's 100% what happened.

                        Surely there will be piles of litigation after this is done? Just for that photo op they tear gassed peacefully assembled protestors - before the curfew. Right to peaceful assembly is a core constitutional right.

                        Polarized politics are such a problem.
                        How he won was on the idea of "it's us against them". 'Us' is all those who liked what America was back when Reagan was still President and before that time; pre-NAFTA and pre-Bush Sr. new world order/globalism in general. 'Them' being everyone who disagrees with a single thing on his agenda or disagrees with him in general. I figured this would lessen once in power but it actually appears to have increased more and more.

                        Its pretty despicable if he did indeed tear gas peaceful protests in order to stage a sleazy, phony photo op.

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                        • Joey wrote: View Post

                          "The Lefts Charlotteville"? What are you even on about? Honestly, after all these years, I don't even know why I bother trying to have a civil discussion with you. You don't even try anymore. As per usual, you once again didn't answer my question. Figured you'd dodge it anyway though.

                          And no, there are not fine people on both sides. I literally just said that neither Antifa or Proud Boys are anything other than criminals, did I not? There are many many fine people choosing to peacefully protest though.

                          So now I answered your question, you going to answer mine?
                          Joey: I can't bring myself to say the leftist militants are bad without mentioning a fringe group on the right (that has nothing to do with the current riots my side is causing) to try and excuse the left's behavior. Now, answer my inflammatory question implying you're a Nazi and if you don't you're a bigot.

                          What is happening is all on the left: BLM, Antifa and the mobs that have been stirred up by the media and your side. No one on the right is calling for looting and rioting or excusing it by saying buildings are insured. Sorry, man, this is the left's militant wing in action. As someone said last night, these are the biggest Joe Biden rallies for President to date. Your side needs to accept responsibility and own these - every death, included - just like the right had to own the actions of a few dozen racists/lunatics. New Rules. You guys own this. Choke on it.

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                          • So team Trump tear gassed clergy handing out water and food outside the church:

                            “Friends, I am ok, but I am, frankly shaken,” wrote Rev. Gini Gerbasi in a post on Facebook after the incident Monday. “I was at St. John’s, Lafayette Square most of the afternoon, with fellow clergy and laypeople – and clergy from some other denominations too. We were passing out water and snacks, and helping the patio area at St. John’s, Lafayette square to be a place of respite and peace. All was well – with a few little tense moments – until about 6:15 or so.”
                            “They started using tear gas and folks were running at us for eyewashes or water or wet paper towels. At this point, Julia, one of our seminarians for next year (who is a trauma nurse) and I looked at each other in disbelief,” she continued, adding, “I was coughing, her eyes were watering, and we were trying to help people as the police – in full riot gear – drove people toward us.”
                            https://www.mediaite.com/trump/rever...litical-stunt/

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                            • The country is on fire, many big cities mayors and state governors are helpless or complicit in the ransacking and the biggest story is apparently Trump walking to a church? Jesus Christ. ORaNgE mAN BaD.

                              Don't interfere with the governors and mayors, you will make things worse! Trump does nothing. Look, Trump isn't doing anything he's useless, in over his head - why isn't he doing something. Trump say he might have to send in the military. Trump is a dictator, why isn't he leading! Trump goes out in the streets to try and show people the streets still belong to the authorities. He's a monster!!! They cleared out our mob, er, our voters for this!

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                              • Morning Consult Poll: 58% support using the military to quell the riots. 71% support using the national guard.

                                Good luck with police reforms now.

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