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  • slaw wrote: View Post
    The country is on fire, many big cities mayors and state governors are helpless or complicit in the ransacking and the biggest story is apparently Trump walking to a church? Jesus Christ. ORaNgE mAN BaD.

    Don't interfere with the governors and mayors, you will make things worse! Trump does nothing. Look, Trump isn't doing anything he's useless, in over his head - why isn't he doing something. Trump say he might have to send in the military. Trump is a dictator, why isn't he leading! Trump goes out in the streets to try and show people the streets still belong to the authorities. He's a monster!!! They cleared out our mob, er, our voters for this!
    The story isn't Trump walking to a church. The story is Trump staging a photo op at a church which he authorize the tear gassing of innocent civilians to make room... Some of whom worked at the church. Because, you know, he can't get the message out there of how unafraid he is if there are *gasp* people around.

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    • slaw wrote: View Post

      Joey: I can't bring myself to say the leftist militants are bad without mentioning a fringe group on the right (that has nothing to do with the current riots my side is causing) to try and excuse the left's behavior. Now, answer my inflammatory question implying you're a Nazi and if you don't you're a bigot.

      What is happening is all on the left: BLM, Antifa and the mobs that have been stirred up by the media and your side. No one on the right is calling for looting and rioting or excusing it by saying buildings are insured. Sorry, man, this is the left's militant wing in action. As someone said last night, these are the biggest Joe Biden rallies for President to date. Your side needs to accept responsibility and own these - every death, included - just like the right had to own the actions of a few dozen racists/lunatics. New Rules. You guys own this. Choke on it.
      You may or may not be a bigot or nazi. Hard to say based solely on posts. But you are an idiot if you think the alt right isn’t leading most of the violent rioting. It’s well documented by credible witnesses in many, many locales across the us. They know what they’re doing and I have to admit it’s pretty ingenious, if completely immoral and disgusting.
      Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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      • jimmie wrote: View Post

        You may or may not be a bigot or nazi. Hard to say based solely on posts. But you are an idiot if you think the alt right isn’t leading most of the violent rioting. It’s well documented by credible witnesses in many, many locales across the us. They know what they’re doing and I have to admit it’s pretty ingenious, if completely immoral and disgusting.
        Are they wearing their Alt right employee IDs? How do we know this beyond some guy somewhere said it was so?

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        • Bishop Budde:

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          • Apollo wrote: View Post

            Are they wearing their Alt right employee IDs? How do we know this beyond some guy somewhere said it was so?
            Well, people who were/arr on the ground, journalists, mostly, showing white men in riot gear braking windows, etc. while black protesters yell at them to stop - that’s one indication. Chatter on the usual alt right social media to get out and stir shit up, another. Tweets and FB posts by Proud Boys leaders talking about the start of the race war, etc etc.

            If you want to correlate protesters with agitators, when the difference between the two is actually pretty obvious, that says more about the info you choose to consume and the people you choose to ally with than it does about the actual situation.
            Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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            • jimmie wrote: View Post

              Well, people who were/arr on the ground, journalists, mostly, showing white men in riot gear braking windows, etc. while black protesters yell at them to stop - that’s one indication. Chatter on the usual alt right social media to get out and stir shit up, another. Tweets and FB posts by Proud Boys leaders talking about the start of the race war, etc etc.

              If you want to correlate protesters with agitators, when the difference between the two is actually pretty obvious, that says more about the info you choose to consume and the people you choose to ally with than it does about the actual situation.
              I'm not following it closely but for instance the FedEx truck that ran over a guy during a protest. That wasn't caused by "white guys in riot gear". I watched the videos. There were protesters and there were looters who may have been protesting.

              As for fringe groups talking about race wars, yeah, that's what fringe groups do on both sides. Nothing new there, that's why the feds monitor the activities of such groups. Because they have extreme views and get violent. There are reports of Antifa being in the heart of some of these incidents. Just curious, why aren't you mentioning them?

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              • Apollo wrote: View Post

                I'm not following it closely but for instance the FedEx truck that ran over a guy during a protest. That wasn't caused by "white guys in riot gear". I watched the videos. There were protesters and there were looters who may have been protesting.

                As for fringe groups talking about race wars, yeah, that's what fringe groups do on both sides. Nothing new there, that's why the feds monitor the activities of such groups. Because they have extreme views and get violent. There are reports of Antifa being in the heart of some of these incidents. Just curious, why aren't you mentioning them?
                Because I haven’t seen any? At all? At least from any credible sources. Mainly because there’s no such group as “Antifa”, you know that, right? Anyone just labelling looters and instigators as some sort of organized, socialized group is not credible.

                just to clarify, the looters are assholes. The instigators who are more than just looters are assholes and worse. Neither reflect on the peaceful protesters who vastly outnumber them. I just think conversations like this deflect from the real issue at hand, which is recurring police violence against non whites. This is not about anarchists - they’re just co-opting the issue. It’s not about alt right, even if they are also using it as a means to advance their cause by blaming their enemies. It’s a shame people have let it cloud the real story.
                Last edited by jimmie; Tue Jun 2nd, 2020, 03:30 PM.
                Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                • jimmie wrote: View Post

                  Because I haven’t seen any? At all? At least from any credible sources. Mainly because there’s no such group as “Antifa”, you know that, right? Anyone just labelling looters and instigators as some sort of organized, socialized group is not credible.
                  Hmmm there's more to it than that. Who honestly believes that all the violence and looting is angry white racist groups? That's clearly not the truth. Is that happening? Based on what you're saying, yeah but is that all that's happening? No way. I'm not even following this closely and I know that.

                  However, it is a neat and tidy (yet dishonest) way to attempt to deflect blame that is getting pointed in all directions. Because if you were to believe everyone then it is all on the other guys and girls. It's better to be honest about it though. Because when there is film out there of non-white guys in riot gear doing such things it hurts credibility. Credibility is the most important aspect of nonviolent protest and movement. The protest leaders clearly don't support violence or looting but they can't closely control something this big. They are operating from intellect but clearly on some streets this is somewhat visceral at times and not just for the angry white guy riot gear wearing boogeymen.

                  This is a perfect time for criminals of all colors to commit crimes. That's probably closer to the truth.
                  Last edited by Apollo; Tue Jun 2nd, 2020, 03:34 PM.

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                  • A touching story that probably won't get the attention it deserves:
                    Police in Fayetteville, North Carolina, made a surprising move Monday during a tense stand off with protesters seeking justice in the case of George Floyd, who died after being restrained by police in Minneapolis.

                    All 60-plus officers knelt before the marchers on Murchison Road.

                    Video of the moment had been viewed more than 14,000 times on Twitter and got 15,000 reactions on Facebook as of Tuesday morning.

                    “As a show of understanding the pain that is in our community and our nation regarding equality, the #FayPD took a knee to show that we also stand for justice for everyone,” the department wrote. “We are committed to listening and treating everyone with dignity and respect.”

                    Witnesses say some officers and protesters responded to the move with tears.
                    https://www.newsobserver.com/news/st...243193151.html

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                    • Apollo wrote: View Post
                      This is a perfect time for criminals of all colors to commit crimes. That's probably closer to the truth.
                      Here's a good example of what is going on in some places:

                      West Philadelphia ShopRite Looted For 15 Hours Straight, Owner Says
                      https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/20...ht-owner-says/

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                      • slaw wrote: View Post

                        Joey: I can't bring myself to say the leftist militants are bad without mentioning a fringe group on the right (that has nothing to do with the current riots my side is causing) to try and excuse the left's behavior. Now, answer my inflammatory question implying you're a Nazi and if you don't you're a bigot.

                        What is happening is all on the left: BLM, Antifa and the mobs that have been stirred up by the media and your side. No one on the right is calling for looting and rioting or excusing it by saying buildings are insured. Sorry, man, this is the left's militant wing in action. As someone said last night, these are the biggest Joe Biden rallies for President to date. Your side needs to accept responsibility and own these - every death, included - just like the right had to own the actions of a few dozen racists/lunatics. New Rules. You guys own this. Choke on it.
                        LOL You're so caught up on "sides", it's kind of sad man. The only side I'm on is don't be a shitty person. Never once have I endorsed the actions of Antifa, nor have I said rioting and looting was helpful, productive, etc. and yet you try and imply that because I'm not some Trump acolyte, that I somehow support them? Give it up man. You're grasping at straws.

                        And I haven't implied anyone was a Nazi. Though interesting that's what you took from that. I was simply hoping you would acknowledge that there are militant extremists on both "sides" (as you like to put it) that no reasonable person nearer to the center actually supports.

                        Also, you need to do more research and listen less to Trump. There are absolutely agitators from the right out there.
                        Last edited by Joey; Tue Jun 2nd, 2020, 05:03 PM.

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                        • slaw wrote: View Post

                          Joey: I can't bring myself to say the leftist militants are bad without mentioning a fringe group on the right (that has nothing to do with the current riots my side is causing) to try and excuse the left's behavior. Now, answer my inflammatory question implying you're a Nazi and if you don't you're a bigot.

                          What is happening is all on the left: BLM, Antifa and the mobs that have been stirred up by the media and your side. No one on the right is calling for looting and rioting or excusing it by saying buildings are insured. Sorry, man, this is the left's militant wing in action.
                          I've seen numerous videos of people from both the far left and far right -- participating in the instigation of looting and destruction of property. Do you believe that no one on the extreme right has seen this as an opportunity to blur the protester's message?

                          This is a major example that was reported today, which prior, Trump had specifically and wrongly cited in his assertion it's all coming from the radical left.

                          https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/tech/...unt/index.html
                          https://www.cbsnews.com/news/twitter...cists-removal/

                          This is happening widely.

                          I've seen numerous videos of what has been shown to be police smashing out store windows in order to provide a context to viciously enact marshall law. I've seen countless videos of police preemptively, brutally assaulting peaceful protesters, pulling down their covid masks and shooting tear gas directly into their faces, shooting people's eyes out with rubber bullets. Two individuals have lost eyes that I've heard of. There have been countless, recorded acts of excessive force and instigated violence by police. They're all out there to be seen.

                          To say "What is happening is all on the left" ..... Where is this basis formed, other than an extremely basic and misguided assumption?

                          'right vs left'?? ... people who are actually *political* are by and large not doing *any* of the looting. When you say this is BLM? BLM is not looting anything... BLM is very working very hard at addressing the issues of police brutality and striving to see an end to the needless killing of black people.... is that left ? How deeply sad if so.

                          The people of BLM are activists who work way too hard to see change for their people to then run in and steal sneakers. Vandalism and looting (when not being perpetrated by fringe political groups from both ends of the spectrum) is being done by utterly disillusioned, disenfranchised, mostly young individuals. Many of whom are black, yes... but also many of whom are not. But how could anyone not be disillusioned as a black person in America at this point? A young person has 21x (!!!!) more likelihood of dying at the hands of police than a white person. 1 in every 1000 black people will die at the hands of police... (!!!!) I don't think you're ok with that? How could anyone be? I'm not at all ok with riots and looting. But I can understand what might be at the root cause of them.

                          Have you seen the crates of bricks that authorities are leaving in front of stores in an effort to coax black people into throwing just one, so that they can step in and use force on peaceful protesters. These images are widely available.

                          Unfortunately, what's become very clear, is that this president has little interest in bringing calm or restoration to his country. He can't even say "I hope for a return to calm" or "there is a lot of hurt in our nation" or "we have some investigating as to how we can all be better." He can say nothing that doesn't fan the flames. A better man could've perhaps singlehandedly put an end to this already, simply by extending the slightest amount of compassion.

                          slaw wrote: View Post
                          Your side needs to accept responsibility and own these - every death, included - just like the right had to own the actions of a few dozen racists/lunatics. New Rules. You guys own this. Choke on it.
                          "Own every death" ... "Choke on it" ? .... after a man just died in the streets -- we know it was a murder now. Two further autopsies have proven George Floyd died from choking on it.

                          I'm not trying to shame you. Please. I implore you. Consider your words and proceed with more kindness, empathy and understanding in your heart.

                          We spend all this time on this site where we celebrate The Toronto Raptors... 90% of whom are black... how can we carry on a conversation like this?

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                          • How do we even know what each rioter/looter believes in? They might not even understand what a left winger or what a right winger is for all you know. This is 'free shit' time in a country where the income gap between the rich in the poor is at an all-time high. It's at a time where the middle class is rapidly shrinking. The police are busy hovering around free speech, too busy to handle a 15 hour looting at a Philly grocery store for instance.

                            You guys are in here assuming that the people share one of your views, are consciously acting based on those views and if the action is negative then is acting in opposition to your view. That is a large assumption. If you're not merely assuming then break that down because beyond the "news" out there again cherry picking stories that fit their views (in some cases mixed with sensationalist lies), we don't know. We have to take their word for it and they've never been known to lie to us all the fucking time.

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                            • jimmie wrote: View Post

                              You may or may not be a bigot or nazi. Hard to say based solely on posts. But you are an idiot if you think the alt right isn’t leading most of the violent rioting. It’s well documented by credible witnesses in many, many locales across the us. They know what they’re doing and I have to admit it’s pretty ingenious, if completely immoral and disgusting.
                              Jesus Christ. I mean, I'd call this gaslighting but I think you really believe this.

                              I do find it strange though that all those Biden staffers and left-wing celebrities are giving money to funds that bail out alt-right rioters. That alt-right is so damned devious they've orchestrated for the rich liberals to bail them out of jail! And, even more so, they've convinced many on the left to justify rioting and looting. Man, those guys sure are cunning.

                              EDIT: Man! Who knew Bill de Blasio's daughter was an alt-righter?

                              EDIT : The alright now has minority lawyers!

                              https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/202...g-charges.html

                              EDIT: Jesus, why are radical left wing activists defending white supremacists (jimmie, quick. Get her the new talking points!)?

                              https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1267877443911778306

                              Last edited by slaw; Wed Jun 3rd, 2020, 12:48 PM.

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                              • GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post

                                I'm not trying to shame you. Please. I implore you. Consider your words and proceed with more kindness, empathy and understanding in your heart.

                                We spend all this time on this site where we celebrate The Toronto Raptors... 90% of whom are black... how can we carry on a conversation like this?
                                I agree. That was intemperate and the turn of phrase wasn't timely. I apologize to Joey for that post.



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