Everything Politics II

[S.R.]

There's some serious overlap in the BLM protestors and the "stay home, fuck the economy, give me CERB" people. The irony is not lost on me

Yes, but in the US it's vice versa, too. Pretty hilarious how fast it went from:

"Fuck the government! You can't tell me to stay home! Fuck you I'm getting bagels!"

to

"Of course the national guard beat you with sticks in the middle of the street, you were out past the 7 PM curfew you libtard"

Another favourite:

"We are stockpiling weapons for the day when an authoritarian government deprives us of our constitutionally protected freedoms! You can trust the man! 2A 2A 2A!"

to

"Of course your peaceful protest got teargassed off the White House lawn in the middle of your peaceful assembly by three different types of armed & unidentified security forces so the president could take a picture outside. What do you expect when somebody some other place some other time throws a brick through a Walgreens window? Libtards."

[KeonClark]

Yes, but in the US it's vice versa, too. Pretty hilarious how fast it went from:

"Fuck the government! You can't tell me to stay home! Fuck you I'm getting bagels!"

to

"Of course the national guard beat you with sticks in the middle of the street, you were out past the 7 PM curfew you libtard"

Another favourite:

"We are stockpiling weapons for the day when an authoritarian government deprives us of our constitutionally protected freedoms! You can trust the man! 2A 2A 2A!"

to

"Of course your peaceful protest got teargassed off the White House lawn in the middle of your peaceful assembly by three different types of armed & unidentified security forces so the president could take a picture outside. What do you expect when somebody some other place some other time throws a brick through a Walgreens window? Libtards."

I support BLM and anti lockdown. But both groups contain morons. Basically, everybody is stupid except me. *kicks up feet and lights cigar*

[S.R.]

I still can't get over the transcripts of what actually comes out of Donald Trump's mouth. Honestly, where do you even start with this: https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1268622750463062017

[Bendit]

I still can't get over the transcripts of what actually comes out of Donald Trump's mouth. Honestly, where do you even start with this: https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1268622750463062017

Pl. don't try, some of it may rub off on you... krytonite to the brain.

[Bendit]

Donald Trump thinks power looks like masked men in combat uniforms lined up in front of the marble columns of the Lincoln Memorial. He thinks it looks like Black Hawk helicopters hovering so low over protesters that they chop off the tops of trees. He thinks it looks like troops using tear gas to clear a plaza for a photo op. He thinks it looks like him hoisting a Bible in his raised right hand.

Trump thinks power sounds like this: “Our country always wins. That is why I am taking immediate Presidential action to stop the violence and restore security and safety in America . . . dominate the streets . . .

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...st-performance

[slaw]

I confess that while the left is eating its own at the New York Times is not surprising I didn’t see Vox being among the Girondins. Thought they were definitely Montagnards. On the positive side, no more Voxsplainers! Vive la revolution! Bend the knee liberals, your progressive masters demand it.

[Apollo]

I've flipped my view on the flag kneeling. I am suspicious that Kaep may be a phony but I think that most who were doing it are genuine.

While I think it is a damaging move to the bottom line of their particular business because of the fundamental reason why people spectate in sports (to forget for a few hours from time to time), there is no business without the people on the field. They're the ones who matter most and you could remove the giant stadiums, fancy uniforms, slick TV productions, etc and just have them playing on a grassy field and people would tune into that over whatever the NFL managed to pump out. They are the business and the league has to move out of the way provided no laws are being broken, which they're not.

Given what's going on right now and given the response from government, I think the kneeling will be rising significantly and I am really interested to see what guys like Drew Brees do come week one of pre-season(if there's a pre-season) and especially week one of the regular season. I am also really interested in seeing the reaction from regular people to what he does. He's apparently given a lot to African Americans in his local community, I think he cares, I just think people misunderstand what he was trying to communicate because they have a different perspective. He doesn't understand their perspective because he didn't come for a similar situation and was never challenged on his views until now and he never thought to challenge his own views deeply on the subject(which is where he mostly should earn criticism because he is an adult). Life experiences influence views and this is where a movement gets held up because it is difficult to share the power of that life experience with someone else in order to change minds. It takes a lot of time and persistence.

A single mountain can look entirely different when viewed from the north, south, east and west.

[jimmie]

I've flipped my view on the flag kneeling. I am suspicious that Kaep may be a phony but I think that most who were doing it are genuine.

While I think it is a damaging move to the bottom line of their particular business because of the fundamental reason why people spectate in sports (to forget for a few hours from time to time), there is no business without the people on the field. They're the ones who matter most and you could remove the giant stadiums, fancy uniforms, slick TV productions, etc and just have them playing on a grassy field and people would tune into that over whatever the NFL managed to pump out. They are the business and the league has to move out of the way provided no laws are being broken, which they're not.

Given what's going on right now and given the response from government, I think the kneeling will be rising significantly and I am really interested to see what guys like Drew Brees do come week one of pre-season(if there's a pre-season) and especially week one of the regular season. I am also really interested in seeing the reaction from regular people to what he does. He's apparently given a lot to African Americans in his local community, I think he cares, I just think people misunderstand what he was trying to communicate because they have a different perspective. He doesn't understand their perspective because he didn't come for a similar situation and was never challenged on his views until now and he never thought to challenge his own views deeply on the subject(which is where he mostly should earn criticism because he is an adult). Life experiences influence views and this is where a movement gets held up because it is difficult to share the power of that life experience with someone else in order to change minds. It takes a lot of time and persistence.

A single mountain can look entirely different when viewed from the north, south, east and west.

I’m glad to see a shift in perspective. It’s great to know people can change their opinion when they take the time to really think about an issue.

But it this is the problem. It’s not just a different perspective between Brees and his teammates due to different environments. Bree’s has been around black people - showered with them, fought with them, travelled with them, likely shared meals with some of their families, etc. since he was a child. This is about not wanting to think about it. Ample opportunity to talk, ask questions, listen. He didn’t take them or they didn’t have an effect on him. Why? It’s uncomfotrable, it challenges the inherent privilege of his particular upbringing. There is no excuse for Drew Brees to have not had this “come to Jesus” moment a lot sooner.

If anyone is less than genuine here, I’d guess it’s Brees, the guy who had to issue a fast apology after half his teammates blew him up on Twitter, rather than the guy who gave up his career.

[Apollo]

I’m glad to see a shift in perspective. It’s great to know people can change their opinion when they take the time to really think about an issue.

But it this is the problem. It’s not just a different perspective between Brees and his teammates due to different environments. Bree’s has been around black people - showered with them, fought with them, travelled with them, likely shared meals with some of their families, etc. since he was a child. This is about not wanting to think about it. Ample opportunity to talk, ask questions, listen. He didn’t take them or they didn’t have an effect on him. Why? It’s uncomfotrable, it challenges the inherent privilege of his particular upbringing. There is no excuse for Drew Brees to have not had this “come to Jesus” moment a lot sooner.

If anyone is less than genuine here, I’d guess it’s Brees, the guy who had to issue a fast apology after half his teammates blew him up on Twitter, rather than the guy who gave up his career.

Well this is why I said: "was never challenged on his views until now and he never thought to challenge his own views deeply on the subject(which is where he mostly should earn criticism because he is an adult".

This is true for everyone on some level. No one is perfect, all knowing, all understanding and infallible in thinking. People don't have time to research extensively on all issues, challenge beliefs based on that research and it is human nature to prioritize things in one's immediate path that impact them directly right now. This is true for everyone. Brees had nothing to prompt him to probe past what he learned from his family upbringing. He was told about his family history, how they sacrificed in war for his country and what the flag should mean(to him). That became part of his identity and now when he defends the flag he's defending his family members, his identity and he's likely never looked far past that and I do not think anyone in the locker room was going to challenge that before now; I don't know if you've ever been in a locker room but this is not the sort of topics that come up when you're getting ready for a game or cooling down after a game or just hanging out.

I agree with you on Brees also not being genuine. He was genuine in what he said first, the apology is empty. There's no way he had enough time to unpack his whole life and identify how that all fits together into what he believe and then go fill in the blanks or strip and patch the flaws. That is clear and this goes to the question I posed about how people react to him in pre-season and the regular season. The apology was damage control.

And people change views all the time. It's called growing as a human being. I'm sure it happens to you too. People grow in all sorts of different directions.

[jimmie]

Well this is why I said: "was never challenged on his views until now and he never thought to challenge his own views deeply on the subject(which is where he mostly should earn criticism because he is an adult".

This is true for everyone on some level. No one is perfect, all knowing, all understanding and infallible in thinking. People don't have time to research extensively on all issues, challenge beliefs based on that research and it is human nature to prioritize things in one's immediate path that impact them directly right now. This is true for everyone. Brees had nothing to prompt him to probe past what he learned from his family upbringing. He was told about his family history, how they sacrificed in war for his country and what the flag should mean(to him). That became part of his identity and now when he defends the flag he's defending his family members, his identity and he's likely never looked far past that and I do not think anyone in the locker room was going to challenge that before now; I don't know if you've ever been in a locker room but this is not the sort of topics that come up when you're getting ready for a game or cooling down after a game or just hanging out.

I agree with you on Brees also not being genuine. He was genuine in what he said first, the apology is empty. There's no way he had enough time to unpack his whole life and identify how that all fits together into what he believe and then go fill in the blanks or strip and patch the flaws. That is clear and this goes to the question I posed about how people react to him in pre-season and the regular season. The apology was damage control.

And people change views all the time. It's called growing as a human being. I'm sure it happens to you too. People grow in all sorts of different directions.

I’ve spent TONS of time in locker rooms, and I can’t agree with your thoughts on that. I guess it dspends on how much you choose to engage with your teammates as people, vs. Playing or practicing and going home without considering their outside the lines lives. That’s not my experience with team sports, and sure as hell not at the elite level where team cohesion is critical to success. There’s no way he hasn’t had opportunity to learn, either directly by talking, or simply by osmosis. Disinterest is a way more likely explanation.

To your last sentence, yes, one would hope. And yes, it happens to me all the time. It wasn’t meant to come off as condescending. Genuinely glad to see it. But it’s not as commonplace as you think it is. Lots of people refuse to entertain different views.

[Apollo]

I’ve spent TONS of time in locker rooms, and I can’t agree with your thoughts on that. I guess it dspends on how much you choose to engage with your teammates as people, vs. Playing or practicing and going home without considering their outside the lines lives. That’s not my experience with team sports, and sure as hell not at the elite level where team cohesion is critical to success. There’s no way he hasn’t had opportunity to learn, either directly by talking, or simply by osmosis. Disinterest is a way more likely explanation.

To your last sentence, yes, one would hope. And yes, it happens to me all the time. It wasn’t meant to come off as condescending. Genuinely glad to see it. But it’s not as commonplace as you think it is. Lots of people refuse to entertain different views.

Well we'll have to disagree. Some of my long time friends and my very best friends, I met in sports and we never talked about politics in the locker room. We talked about sports, girls, cars, music, equipment preferences, funny stories from our pasts, etc.

And I never said he didn't have opportunities to learn. I said he chose not to likely for obvious reasons that impact your very own views as well because it's human nature. That's why as you admit yourself, your own views change with time.

[jimmie]

Well we'll have to disagree. Some of my long time friends and my very best friends, I met in sports and we never talked about politics in the locker room. We talked about sports, girls, cars, music, equipment preferences, funny stories from our pasts, etc.

Is that maybe part of the issue? That you seemed to stick to “safe” conversations with your teammates? I’ve always talked politics, religion, current events, family, etc with teammates and friends throughout my life. I think it’s helped expose me to different experiences and viewpoints, and hopefully also challenge my own. Exposure, critical thinking, and openness to difference are pretty much prerequisites to being a thoughtful, contributing member of a civil society in this day and age.

[Apollo]

Is that maybe part of the issue? That you seemed to stick to “safe” conversations with your teammates? I’ve always talked politics, religion, current events, family, etc with teammates and friends throughout my life. I think it’s helped expose me to different experiences and viewpoints, and hopefully also challenge my own. Exposure, critical thinking, and openness to difference are pretty much prerequisites to being a thoughtful, contributing member of a civil society in this day and age.

Ok, you said you didn't mean to come off as condescending earlier. Well, you are. If only we could all run our lives like you then the world would be a perfect place.

You're assuming a lot based on very little atop your high horse.

[jimmie]

Ok, you said you didn't mean to come off as condescending earlier. Well, you are. If only we could all run our lives like you then the world would be a perfect place.

You're assuming a lot based on very little atop your high horse.

What did I assume? I asked a question meant to spur some thought by you, and others, to maybe think more deeply about why we end up with the viewpoints we do. That’s part of the problem - you don’t really want to be challenged at all. FOH with “your high horse”. Seriously, I fucking give up.

[Apollo]

What did I assume? I asked a question meant to spur some thought by you, and others, to maybe think more deeply about why we end up with the viewpoints we do. That’s part of the problem - you don’t really want to be challenged at all. FOH with “your high horse”. Seriously, I fucking give up.

It's clear what you're assuming. It's implied all the way through your post and now I can see it clearly in a couple prior posts.

The arrogance in your post in question is... Surprising. If you truly were as wise as you think you are, such a thing would never have left your fingertips.

You're saying that people who disagree with you don't think critically. I'm not going to defend myself against such snobbery. Arrogance never wins. You'll see as you get older and more mature.