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  • Apollo wrote: View Post
    You're dealing with humans with desires and needs. They need purpose and they need to be productive. They need rewards for that productivity. This is capitalism. Regular people, who will collectively ultimately decide what happens, see cost of living increasing rapidly and they see good, high paying jobs shrinking. They've been hit with sensational warnings of time being up for about four decades and over that time the story has changed many times. They are rightfully skeptical even if they don't discuss it because the PC police are out loud and proud.

    What I believe is we can all do better, a lot better and if it is true(an accurate forecast) then it cannot work without China and the US both at the table. What I believe is the free world cannot take a knee and give up power to the communists. China must be in.
    I'm glad you believe we can all do better. That sounds like you at least acknowledge there's a problem, which is a step in the right directio, and I honestly didn't know if that was the case - which is why I asked the question in the first place. If it were a simple case of disbelief (or less diplomatically, ignorance), then the discussion is over, but at least with a common agreement that there's a problem, discussion can turn to solutions, including what to do about countries who aren't doing enough.

    As for your first paragraph, yes, humans have desires and needs, they need purpose and to be productive. Where you're wrong is in calling that "capitalism". It's human psychology - also science, by the way! - whereas capitalism is just another belief system geared towards economics. Humans don't need to be pursuing capital to have their desires and needs sated, or to feel their lives have purpose or to feel productive. Some do, sure. For the majority, what provides those things are love, family/friends, etc. All things that can exist when you're rich or poor, and are arguably more fulfilling long-term than money. I think that's why the majority of people DO in fact want more action on climate change, not less, as they see CC putting those things they truly value at risk.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    • Maury wrote: View Post
      There will be serious problems in 20 years when Gen Z and the tail end of the Millenials have to support a significant portion of the population that is both dependent and expensive. This is a serious problem and the idea of overpopulation has got to be put to bed here.
      This is why there is also no "mass immigration crisis" in Canada. We need them.
      Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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      • jimmie wrote: View Post

        This is why there is also no "mass immigration crisis" in Canada. We need them.
        Sure we do. Not en masse though, that can cause problems. Controlled immigration with proper vetting that prioritizes those that want to contribute to Canadian society, and would preferably like to adopt Canadian culture. We don't need ethnic and cultural pockets that refuse to integrate.

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        • Joey wrote: View Post
          As much as China is an extreme offender on the pollution front, let's not forget that China outspends the US on renewables 3:1, and produces 27% of their total energy from renewables, vs 15% for the US. China at least acknowledges it's pollution problem, and the impacts it is having, and trying to come up with solutions, and has very ambitious goals for the future already set. Whether they are sincere in reaching those goals can be debated, but their actions thus far indicate they are taking it more seriously than the current US Government.
          https://www.mining.com/chinese-compa...outside-china/
          they will begin to export their pollution.

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          • Maury wrote: View Post

            Sure we do. Not en masse though, that can cause problems. Controlled immigration with proper vetting that prioritizes those that want to contribute to Canadian society, and would preferably like to adopt Canadian culture. We don't need ethnic and cultural pockets that refuse to integrate.
            and when your home was a shithole, and you qualify to skip the line by writing in asylum to be quickly placed, and taken care of in canada is a problem. people from shitty places, with shitty governments, and shitty rights play the system. happens all the time. right when the trick to the bureaucracy is figured out, it gets exploited. great communist central planning beijing had an apartment crisis, where rich people buy up 10 flats(some generals had 100s of apartments)(wouldn't happen here if we became socialists though, not our dear leaders), and leave them empty. so the geniuses in the ccp decided a law should fix it, just make it so one family can only own one primary, and one rental.

            the people started having divorces so one family became 2 families, and each parent could put a house in their child's name, and their parents name, and on down the line.

            people aren't honest, and will always do what is best for them, at the expense of others.

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            • https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/ch...084216043.html

              "Jacob Harlan and Alyssa Petersen were detained in the eastern province of Jiangsu in late September “on suspicion of organizing others to cross the border,” foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang told reporters at a regular briefing in Beijing on Thursday."

              98% conviction rate in china. "suspicion of organizing others to cross the border". that's as simple as "want to go to korea for the weekend".

              The detentions come amid what appears to be a broader crackdown on foreign teachers working in China. State-owned news agency Xinhua has reported 16 foreign teachers were arrested in July, while China Daily reported in August that thousands of teachers may be working in the country illegally.

              This one happens because these kids, usually 20 somethings, believe their chinese boss when they say they are waiting for the required paperwork to properly apply for a work visa. they didn't pay the 100k for licensing . the police come for the school's illegal work, the school throws the teachers under the bus, and starts again with another group of ignorants.

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              • jimmie wrote: View Post

                I'm glad you believe we can all do better. That sounds like you at least acknowledge there's a problem, which is a step in the right directio, and I honestly didn't know if that was the case - which is why I asked the question in the first place. If it were a simple case of disbelief (or less diplomatically, ignorance), then the discussion is over, but at least with a common agreement that there's a problem, discussion can turn to solutions, including what to do about countries who aren't doing enough.

                As for your first paragraph, yes, humans have desires and needs, they need purpose and to be productive. Where you're wrong is in calling that "capitalism". It's human psychology - also science, by the way! - whereas capitalism is just another belief system geared towards economics. Humans don't need to be pursuing capital to have their desires and needs sated, or to feel their lives have purpose or to feel productive. Some do, sure. For the majority, what provides those things are love, family/friends, etc. All things that can exist when you're rich or poor, and are arguably more fulfilling long-term than money. I think that's why the majority of people DO in fact want more action on climate change, not less, as they see CC putting those things they truly value at risk.
                I think you're cherry picking part of a sentence I said. I said they need to be productive and be rewarded for that productivity. The wants and needs being met through productivity is capitalism. Social problems are always at their lowest in the free world when small and medium business is booming. Productivity and achievement is the salt that makes life taste better. Of course love and family/friends are very important but one can enjoy that area of life a lot more when one isn't in debt, worrying about money or depressed, on drugs/alcohol trying to forget for a moment that they're without work or unable to provide for themselves or/and said loved ones the life they want to live. Life isn't about staying alive, life is about living. Anyone who says money doesn't matter is lying to themselves. Money does matter. Money changes lives. Kill the economy and you'll see many social problems. I'm not saying do nothing or do less, I'm saying if you want change you don't tell people they have ten years to live, people don't believe that because its bullshit.

                Tell the truth and formulate a long term plan that fixes the environment without destroying the economy. That's the challenge and I don't see a way to do that just yet. It's a complex and difficult problem.
                Last edited by Apollo; Thu Oct 17th, 2019, 05:39 PM.

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                • Apollo wrote:

                  But we've been clearly told that the neighbor dumping all their garbage in our backyard doesn't impact our ability to clean up the dump that is our backyard. We need to stop producing garbage and forget about the growing piles not coming from us. We're losers to bring them up and ask how they fit into the cause or the answer.
                  Literally no one said any of this ... Lol

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                  • jimmie wrote: View Post
                    China isn't = quitter talk.

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                    • This channel is starting to make sense (well sometimes) ... especially the Judge !


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                      • Looks like Gam-Gam got into the sauce before the podcast....

                        Remember, this is the responsible, right-thinking person the left and the NeverTumpers are sad never got elected.

                        Former Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton said Thursday the Russians are currently "grooming" a Democrat running in the presidential primary to run as a third-party candidate and champion their interests.

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                        • My new favourite Canadian premier....

                          New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs waded Friday into the issue of Ottawa's treatment of Quebec, telling media at a Conservative Party campaign stop in Fredericton that "it's been forever, really," that Quebec has been favoured.

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                          • slaw wrote: View Post
                            My new favourite Canadian premier....
                            Neither here nor there on either of your posts.
                            But re the Hilary being drunk slag ....it was the NB premier who made his statements while visiting a brewery...lol.

                            What do you think of the 2 indicted Russian thugs (ex Soviets they are called), aides to the president's lawyer Giuliani. Think that qualifies as collusion? You still don't get it do ya.

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                            • slaw wrote: View Post
                              Looks like Gam-Gam got into the sauce before the podcast....

                              Remember, this is the responsible, right-thinking person the left and the NeverTumpers are sad never got elected.
                              Tulsi was the one i was hoping would win the nominations. Seems like you can't win the democratic leadership unless your a warhawk. Crazy how democrats want to label anyone who is anti-conflict a russian controlled opposition. They used to be the party of peace. What went wrong? They haven't learned that labeling anyone who doesn't play by the DNC rules a manchurian canidate doesn't work? I have U.S citizenship and if Tulsi runs i will vote for her.
                              To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                              • sargon is against the new brexit deal. i don't understand all the intricacies, but i think it might be a deal that is destined to fail, so that the oct 31 deadline passes, and boris "tried his best". giving up your territorial water rights seems like a pretty big give.

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