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  • #91
    Israel dont want peace in the world looks like

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    • #92
      thewayoulike wrote: View Post
      Israel dont want peace in the world looks like
      Why would you say this? Honestly, if Hamas would fire 5000+ rockets on the UK or US you know what would happen? US & UK power would wipe out anyone standing their way.

      Cairo conference pledged $5.4b for Gaza reconstruction. - Awesome news. People need a lot of help there.
      Last edited by rocwell; Mon Oct 13th, 2014, 10:53 AM.

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      • #93
        rocwell wrote: View Post
        Why would you say this? Honestly, if Hamas would fire 5000+ rockets on the UK or US you know what would happen? US & UK power would wipe out anyone standing their way.

        Cairo conference pledged $5.4b for Gaza reconstruction. - Awesome news. People need a lot of help there.
        The statement you replied to was not framed correctly imo. While not everyone in Israel is against making peace with the Palestinians, the current govt. of Israel led by Netanyahu and other right wing parties are definitely in my view insincere about any peace negotiations. Simple question: Why else would they continue to expropriate land in the West Bank for further building of settlements when this probably the single most negative posture for any peace settlement. And the US & UN agrees with this.

        Re your statement about "if Hamas were to rocket US or UK...". I would agree with the analogy if Gaza were an independent country (Mexico or Canada) which attacked indiscriminately another sovereign entity(US). This as you know is not the case. Gaza is under blockade (land, sea and air) if not boots on the ground occupation and Israel are occupiers of the West Bank. Many also call this a form of apartheid. We take our freedoms for granted but being occupied for nearly 50 years without the rights of an independent state gives rise to some groups with a violent philosophy. Its a self fulfilling prophecy and ironically Israel was formed in large part exactly by such means. And on we go. The current Israeli govt have just made the calculation that the status quo is preferable to any other outcome. The point is: Is this right?

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        • #94
          [QUOTE=Bendit;369918]The statement you replied to was not framed correctly imo. While not everyone in Israel is against making peace with the Palestinians, the current govt. of Israel led by Netanyahu and other right wing parties are definitely in my view insincere about any peace negotiations. Simple question: Why else would they continue to expropriate land in the West Bank for further building of settlements when this probably the single most negative posture for any peace settlement. And the US & UN agrees with this.
          IMO this is a croc and a rationalization of a group of terrorists and thugs who are acting in self interest and whose charter indicates that one of its goals is the eradication of the State of Israel.

          Left wing Israel has become right wing /center due to the 67 years of constant attack. Please explain for the first 20 years when there was no settlements -as an issue, that the constant and consistent behavior of the people that lived around the state of Israel . As well as the teaching in their schools for those hatred against Israelis and Jews , that are consistent even today. Enough of your rose color interpretations. Live in their shoes before you call out the people of Israel.

          Rules of engagement during assymetrical war is imperfect , however measure the actions by Israel compared to other wars in the last 50 years by many other countries.Israel supplied food and other items daily during the 50 day war, nothing went through Egypt's Rafah Crossing. Genocide is found in Syria by Assad, in Iraq by ISIL , Saddam Hussein against thr Kurds.

          The panacea to the problems that exist in the Middle East is not Israel.

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          • #95
            [QUOTE=Heatdreamer;369925]
            Bendit wrote: View Post
            The statement you replied to was not framed correctly imo. While not everyone in Israel is against making peace with the Palestinians, the current govt. of Israel led by Netanyahu and other right wing parties are definitely in my view insincere about any peace negotiations. Simple question: Why else would they continue to expropriate land in the West Bank for further building of settlements when this probably the single most negative posture for any peace settlement. And the US & UN agrees with this.
            IMO this is a croc and a rationalization of a group of terrorists and thugs who are acting in self interest and whose charter indicates that one of its goals is the eradication of the State of Israel.

            Left wing Israel has become right wing /center due to the 67 years of constant attack. Please explain for the first 20 years when there was no settlements -as an issue, that the constant and consistent behavior of the people that lived around the state of Israel . As well as the teaching in their schools for those hatred against Israelis and Jews , that are consistent even today. Enough of your rose color interpretations. Live in their shoes before you call out the people of Israel.

            Rules of engagement during assymetrical war is imperfect , however measure the actions by Israel compared to other wars in the last 50 years by many other countries.Israel supplied food and other items daily during the 50 day war, nothing went through Egypt's Rafah Crossing. Genocide is found in Syria by Assad, in Iraq by ISIL , Saddam Hussein against thr Kurds.

            The panacea to the problems that exist in the Middle East is not Israel.
            What exactly is the "croc"?

            So your argument is that the settlements were and continue to be built on prime West Bank land as retribution for the "constant attacks"?

            I did not call out the "people of Israel". I called out the govt. of Israel. As I have in the past the US govt. re the Iraq invasion. Hope you understand the difference.

            I notice you do not touch the crux of the issue....the forced occupation and control of a people and blockades in the absence of any meaningful peace negotiations.

            I do not understand your references to dictators and crimes by other groups and leaders in the Middle east. This is a Israel-Palestinian issue discussion. Like to conflate much?

            Time long past to discuss a final peace settlement. Israel has about 200 nuclear weapons I understand among massive conventional weaponry superiority. They are in fact in a superior negotiating position. Is it because Hamas has a para in their manifesto that was written many decades ago and is more so political posturing by one party among the Palestinian population...that Israel's govt will not discuss peace? Yet they shuttled between rooms in Cairo discussing the Gaza ceasefire with Hamas.

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            • #96
              People vote the government in , it is rep by pop. The settlements can be negotiated away in a final settlement that is acceptable to all parties. T Palestinians can close the deal or not, that is there decision. Basically what will be the sacrifices be by both parties.

              Why should Israel provides path through its country. Israel in my opinion since the Palestinians have two different govt with supposedly different philosophies - a third state should be created in Gaza with its own Natural gas deposit off their coast for enhancing economic development

              Each of the Arab states have the same philosophy towards Israel , you think I conflate and I believe you are in denial.

              Nice part of living in the free world we , both are allowed freedom of speech and women are not treated as chattels

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              • #97
                Heatdreamer wrote: View Post
                People vote the government in , it is rep by pop. The settlements can be negotiated away in a final settlement that is acceptable to all parties. T Palestinians can close the deal or not, that is there decision. Basically what will be the sacrifices be by both parties.

                Why should Israel provides path through its country. Israel in my opinion since the Palestinians have two different govt with supposedly different philosophies - a third state should be created in Gaza with its own Natural gas deposit off their coast for enhancing economic development

                Each of the Arab states have the same philosophy towards Israel , you think I conflate and I believe you are in denial.

                Nice part of living in the free world we , both are allowed freedom of speech and women are not treated as chattels
                Bold 1: There is ample evidence that the Arab citizens of Israel (20%) are under represented not only in the Knesset but various other sectors. The fundamental reality is that Israel is a Jewish State by it's own definition so religious parties are a given and every Israeli govt. has to include the religious parties or not get a majority (more often than not) who hold great sway. It is an oxymoron that a state be defined both by it's religion and be also called democratic for ALL of it's citizens. With the numerous parties elected I am not in a position to understand all the other dynamics in play. Simply put it is not like the parliamentary systems most of us are familiar with notably Britain or Canada. Please refer:

                http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8165338.stm

                Bold 2: "Close the deal"? Just taking the timeline of the Oslo Accords onwards the Palestinians have been ready...and this was before the rise of Hamas...who by the way Israel had a hand in nurturing if not creating as internal competition to Arafat. But Israel seemed uninterested/negative environment.

                http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-create-hamas/


                Bold 3: "Provide a path..."? And why not? Did you not indicate both parties have to give up some sacred cows? It could just be a high speed guarded corridoor connecting the West Bank with Gaza...exchange a strip someplace else

                There are 2 parties not 2 philosophies...I think strategies would be the better terminology...between Hamas and the PLO. Abbas is the leader of all Palestinians. Hamas is in power in Gaza. Maybe if the Pal. had their own country we would be having a more orderly process of governance (please no jokes here!).

                Bold 4: I dont know what you are really trying to say here. Egypt has a long standing peace agreement with Israe. Why would a democratic Palestine be like a dictatorship or a monarchy who use Israel to keep their populations frothing and distracted by how they treat them.

                Maybe inadvertently, but you paint all Arabs with the same brush (by citing the neighbouring countries). This is not just unwise because there is very little history of personal freedoms there but some would use a very unkind word to describe such thinking. I am not in denial. It is in Israel's best interests to have meaningful and completed peace talks with the Palestinians or it will not end well and a loss for all.

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                • #98
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rmed_conflicts

                  God bless those crazy people
                  St Lous Dental Assistant School

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                  • #99
                    This just makes my blood boil ...

                    JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel's prime minister pledged Monday to keep building in east Jerusalem, despite stiff international criticism and recent rising tensions between Jews and Arabs in the city.
                    Earlier in the day, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government said it was advancing construction plans to build about 1,000 housing units in east Jerusalem, the part of the city the Palestinians demand for their future state.

                    Speaking to parliament, Netanyahu defended the stance saying there was a wide consensus in Israel to continue building throughout the city, just as every Israeli government has done since Israel captured east Jerusalem in 1967.

                    "Even the Palestinians know that these places will stay in Israeli sovereignty under any agreement," he said. "The French build in Paris, the English build in London and the Israelis build in Jerusalem. To come and tell Jews not to live in Jerusalem — why?"
                    Source
                    Completely clueless.

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                    • Well at least Jordan has Palestines back:
                      United Nations (United States) (AFP) - Jordan requested an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council to discuss Israeli plans to build more Jewish settlements in Arab east Jerusalem, diplomats said.

                      The request followed a letter from Palestinian representative to the United Nations Riyadh Mansour calling for a urgent meeting to "address this crisis situation in occupied east Jerusalem."

                      Jordan, a Security Council member, put forward the request late Monday and was awaiting a response from Argentina, which chairs the 15-member council, on setting a date.

                      Diplomats told AFP the meeting was unlikely to be held on Tuesday or Wednesday.

                      Israel pledged to build more than 1,000 new settler homes in east Jerusalem on Monday, angering Palestinians who warned it could trigger an "explosion" of violence.

                      In his letter, the Palestinian representative called on the council to demand that Israel rescind its plan immediately and "commit to the path of peace that it has clearly and recklessly abandoned."
                      Source

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                      • Crickets in Wash. DC?

                        UN? Time for another veto by the US. What else is new?

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                        • Its getting absolutely ridiculous. Israel is smiling as the rest of the world does nothing; they'll just continue to build, and bit by bit, they'll annihilate an entire people.

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