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Could a Ferguson, Mo. fiasco ever occur in Canada?

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  • Could a Ferguson, Mo. fiasco ever occur in Canada?

    Some serious subjects have been discussed in this forum the last while so I thought I'd throw this one out there. There seems to be a confluence of events & history...race, policing, the militarization of police are some.

    Not too long ago we had in Toronto a similar event of very dubious police response...that of Sammy Yatim on a street car in the west end of TO....so some similarity. The policeman in question has been charged and due to stand trial.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on these events?

  • #2
    I think people should stop crying about police militarization and start looking into police academy. Few rule changes would save hundred of people every year.

    In case of Michael Brown, I've heard he was shot 6 times because "He just kept coming" if it's truth, police have a right to use excessive force, but it SHOULDN'T include deadly force such as use of firearm. You chose police job to protect community, don't be a fucking PUSSY and use your fucking hands to defend yourself and arrest suspect....

    How many cops were on the scene during Michael Brown shooting?

    EDIT: and yes, this could happen in Canada too.
    Last edited by rocwell; Tue Aug 19th, 2014, 08:56 PM.

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    • #3
      I think in Canada we have a much more respectable police service. We also have lower population densities, fewer guns, and less crime in general compared to some of the major US cities (Chicago, Detroit, etc). This makes being a police man in the States much more difficult and dangerous when compared to Canada, and that fact is probably reflected in the way they train police.

      I understand the policy is to empty your weapon once you are allowed to commence firing and basically go for the kill. I understand that most bullets fired by police in Northern European countries accounted for were attempts at incapacitation (shooting at legs, warning shots, etc) rather than attempts at a life.

      In the US, a person with a knife approaching the police can be shot 60 times, and that would be totally legal. In Iceland, 1 shot to legs rendering the person a non-threat, and then you arrest him.

      Basically, I think there is a difference in policing-philosophy in the US, and that difference is thanks to the more difficult and dangerous situations cops from the US would experience.
      The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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      • #4
        rocwell wrote: View Post
        I think people should stop crying about police militarization and start looking into police academy. Few rule changes would save hundred of people every year.

        In case of Michael Brown, I've heard he was shot 6 times because "He just kept coming" if it's truth, police have a right to use excessive force, but it SHOULDN'T include deadly force such as use of firearm. You chose police job to protect community, don't be a fucking PUSSY and use your fucking hands to defend yourself and arrest suspect....

        How many cops were on the scene during Michael Brown shooting?

        EDIT: and yes, this could happen in Canada too.
        Disagree on the militarization stand point. I think that is a HUGE problem.
        John Oliver nails it actually. Great watch:


        As for Michael Brown, I totally agree anyone has the right to defend themselves, but apparently he surrendered and was shot 6 times. Coroners report shows he likely had his hands raised above his head. How else does a 6'4" man get shot in the top of his head.

        As for the on going situation, I'm not sure we'd ever see it to this extent in Canada. First off, our Police forces don't have NEARLY the funding that their counterparts in the states do. And there certainly was a large protest after Sammy Yatim, but that was generally peaceful and police tactics didn't once escalate the situation like they are in Ferguson.

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        • #5
          Joey wrote: View Post

          As for Michael Brown, I totally agree anyone has the right to defend themselves, but apparently he surrendered and was shot 6 times. Coroners report shows he likely had his hands raised above his head. How else does a 6'4" man get shot in the top of his head.
          .
          Jesus Christ... it's freaking execution.. I'm speechless.

          Where is/are cop(s) who shot him?
          Last edited by rocwell; Tue Aug 19th, 2014, 09:26 PM.

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          • #6
            rocwell wrote: View Post
            Jesus Christ... it's freaking execution.. I'm speechless.

            Where is/are cop(s) who shot him?
            Pretty much. Hence all the commotion. Oh ya, and Report also shows there was zero sign of a struggle.

            Cops name is Darren Wilson. And it took 5 days for them to release his name.
            Apparently now he's in hiding; doing so with full Support of the police.
            Last edited by Joey; Tue Aug 19th, 2014, 10:27 PM.

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            • #7
              I am traditionally someone who likes to have as many of the facts as possible on a serious subject like this before casting judgement. No doubt this was a terrible event and race has much to do at least with the aftermath if not the actual shooting of Michael Brown. But this is too much of a reality of America and getting more polarized vis a vis the political divide. I understand there is grand jury convening soon to determine whether the policeman Wilson will be charged. The grand jury system is another anachronism we dont have in Canada and is secretive by its nature so we shall have to see.

              Another item of note is that every small community in the States seem to have their own police force so much so that even neighbouring counties/towns have different rules/procedures...complicated and confusing. We tend to have the provincial police or the RCMP who handle smaller communities so there is conformity of process.

              But this in my view is too racial and that is a historical cross America has to bear I am afraid. In some ways such past era policy of slavery and discrimination/segregation like the Israel policy against Palestinians today is a lesson that future generations also get profoundly affected.

              Re the militarization of police forces, I hear/read/see pictures of too many small forces armed like SWAT tactical forces. This goes to the heart of police management across the country. The more guns around the more they are used. I believe this holds true for criminals, police and just ordinary folk. There were some scenes over the last couple of nights that looked like the US Army in Falluja.

              Too much to say and I am rambling so we'll just try and follow the justice portion of the tragedy and see what the evidence shows. I'll just say that I some times get the impression that rather than de-escalating a confrontation too many cops tend to get very defensive and use authoritarian tactics as a first resort...even in a traffic type incident. They tend to forget that they are there to protect the public and do their best not to harm the suspect or speak rudely without due cause. And this includes instances when the alleged just wants to know what he/she did wrong. The G20 beatups here were a terrible abuse of policing.

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              • #8
                We just had the Sammy Yatim shooting on the streetcar last year, so of course it can happen here. There's absolutely no need for deadly force in cases like these, unless they have a gun pointed at them. I don't understand why they can't use a taser, or if they have to shoot, why in the head or chest?
                The Double Champ is here!
                Dynasty King: RRNBADLS7
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                • #9
                  Mack North wrote: View Post
                  We just had the Sammy Yatim shooting on the streetcar last year, so of course it can happen here. There's absolutely no need for deadly force in cases like these, unless they have a gun pointed at them. I don't understand why they can't use a taser, or if they have to shoot, why in the head or chest?

                  There's one police protocol which I really hate.. Officers are allowed to use lethal force when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm. Of course suspect wielding a knife and walking towards the officers will look like a threat of serious physical harm and most officers will use their firearm to stop him. This rule should expand. If you're alone officer vs knife-wielding man then I'll understand why you are using your firearm to kill this mofo. ( taser isn't always good option when it comes to lethal situations. ), but when there are couple units against this guy, there are almost always few ways how to make lethal situation into non-lethal one. In my opinion, it must start with protocol change or police (un)militarization. Also, we should send officers to verbal negotiation courses too, sometimes it's possible change situation status, from lethal one to non-lethal, but if officers are trained to KILL when there's threat then why are we so surprised? They're making split second decision right there.
                  Last edited by rocwell; Fri Aug 22nd, 2014, 07:25 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Democracy is under attack around the world.

                    That might sound like a tinfoil hat statement but it really and truly is not.

                    As for it not happening in Canada, bullshit. No one remembers the G-20 in Toronto?


                    Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

                    Also, while the politicians certainly are a dangerous lot, the bigger danger is the bureaucracy of government. I suggest people look in to the person bringing forth the charges against Rick Perry in Texas. A DA who was driving drunk at 3x the legal limit, threatened those who arrested her, and has since refused to step down. WTF?!?!?! http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/0...-worst-in-usa/


                    Look at the NSA. Look at Edward Snowden. Anyone here think CSIS is acting with any less regard to our constitution? I don't.

                    There is no question the police forces in US and Canada have been militarized. Nevada and Ferguson are the open acts. In the next few years when things get really bad economically - look out. Those in power are already taking action against the uprising they know is coming.


                    The mainstream media today is nothing more than a puppet of government. When a reporter discloses illegal activity by government, what happens? Well in the USA they are put in jail to release their source. See James Risen currently being held. In th e1980's there was approximing 50-60 major news companies in the US. Today there are around 8. They are all bought and paid for.


                    I could go on and on about this but I won't. If you truly want to get an idea of what is going on in the world today, start reading blogs.

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                    • #11
                      " In the next few years when things get really bad economically - look out."

                      Man, I can't wait for the next economic crash. As long as China don't use it's massive U.S. debt holding as a weapon to affect already stupid Washington policies, smart people will benefit from the next economic collapse.

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