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  • Joey
    replied
    Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

    yes i do. what the hell i am confusing it with then?
    Perhaps you're thinking Jonestown?

    They definitely did all kill themselves. Just with Kool-Aid.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    do i have waco wrong in my memory? i thought it was a suicide cult that killed itself because the feds were doing nothing outside.

    was it a raid that went badly?
    My understanding is that there was a standoff between a cult/militia/whatever and ATF. It turned into a crazy shootout, then a standoff and then eventually the building burned down with many inside it. Anyway, they raided the building was the point and those inside were armed and it led to a flurry of bullets. That's no good for either side in this Bundy standoff and so it makes sense that they stand down already and face the consequences.

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  • Miekenstien
    replied
    Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    do i have waco wrong in my memory? i thought it was a suicide cult that killed itself because the feds were doing nothing outside.

    was it a raid that went badly?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

    yes i do. what the hell i am confusing it with then?

    Leave a comment:


  • Miekenstien
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    It was on the side of the road. There are probably no unbiased witnesses on either side of this.


    Or the feds told him straight up they've had enough, will raid and they don't want this to turn into Waco, Texas. I don't think he takes a plea deal because his whole stance was he did nothing wrong. Taking a plea deal destroys all his credibility and the credibility of the rest in the group. When I refer to credibility, I'm referring to Americans who eat this stuff up and not us in this thread.
    do i have waco wrong in my memory? i thought it was a suicide cult that killed itself because the feds were doing nothing outside.

    was it a raid that went badly?

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    Joey wrote: View Post
    Not sure we can trust Ammon Bundy's word on this one either though.

    If there were 6 unbiased witnesses, I'm sure we'll hear from them at some point.


    Sucks someone had to die, especially because now he will be used as a martyr to their cause; but glad Bundy is behind bars though.
    It was on the side of the road. There are probably no unbiased witnesses on either side of this.

    rocwell wrote: View Post
    "#BREAKING Ammon Bundy, through his attorney, asks remaining occupiers at wildlife refuge to stand down and go home. #LiveOnK2"

    Oh I smell a plea deal.. haha
    Or the feds told him straight up they've had enough, will raid and they don't want this to turn into Waco, Texas. I don't think he takes a plea deal because his whole stance was he did nothing wrong. Taking a plea deal destroys all his credibility and the credibility of the rest in the group. When I refer to credibility, I'm referring to Americans who eat this stuff up and not us in this thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • rocwell
    replied
    "#BREAKING Ammon Bundy, through his attorney, asks remaining occupiers at wildlife refuge to stand down and go home. #LiveOnK2"

    Oh I smell a plea deal.. haha

    Leave a comment:


  • Bendit
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    No, you absolutely can't have people taking over lands with arms and not do anything. I agree. But the hysteria, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over a couple dozen guys occupying an abandoned cabin seemed more than a little ridiculous to me given all the problems certain US cities have with violence.
    Aren't you exaggerating a tad here.

    This was a armed takeover of federal buildings (abandoned cabin??) which served as the hdqtrs. for the refuge and storage of historical artifacts nevermind that employees could not come to work nor "normal" visitors to the refuge?

    These guys have a 1780s' view of the constitution and were about to set up a farcical kangaroo court. And this is fine but they were determined to tote their guns while doing so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joey
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    No, you absolutely can't have people taking over lands with arms and not do anything. I agree. But the hysteria, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over a couple dozen guys occupying an abandoned cabin seemed more than a little ridiculous to me given all the problems certain US cities have with violence.
    I think you're slightly downplaying the situation...

    It wasn't "a couple of guys" (EDIT: I see you said "Couple dozen" ... I stand corrected, but point stands.).. there was at one point, more than 20 armed men from what I understand, who by saying they are willing "to die" for this, make it pretty clear they have plans of things getting violent - That's a militia.

    It also wasn't "an abandoned cabin" .. it's the headquarters for a 300 sq. mi. National Wildlife Refuge - which has, y'know, things to do, like not be held hostage by a bunch of yokels.


    Not to mention the different State governments (including Illinois), and City governments, have nothing to do with Oregon, and have full freedom to treat their own problems as they so choose. Why the President needs to be brought into this, I have no idea.
    Edit: I guess you just mention him in connection to Chicago, so fair enough.. but still. These really have nothing to do with one-another, and if they can't handle two things at once, then they've got bigger fish to fry.
    Last edited by Joey; Wed Jan 27th, 2016, 05:06 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    Joey wrote: View Post
    The sarcasm is strong in this one ......
    Not sure what Chicago Gang violence has to do with Oregon, but fair enough.. Because obviously this whole thing has had Obama completed tied up and unable to do other Presidenty things ...


    But to my point, you can't have people deliberately challenge the Government with armed take over, and not deal with it appropriately. You let this go with a slap on the wrist and you're left dealing with full-out Anarchy, as everyone will then take up arms and take over who knows what else.
    No, you absolutely can't have people taking over lands with arms and not do anything. I agree. But the hysteria, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over a couple dozen guys occupying an abandoned cabin seemed more than a little ridiculous to me given all the problems certain US cities have with violence.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bendit
    replied
    There is as well has familial precedence here...the Bundy clan (with dad Cliven) pulled off a similar standoff a few years ago. The offspring wanted to take it a step further (the previous occasion being about their own property).

    Leave a comment:


  • Joey
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    Yes, now we can finally all sleep soundly at night. The abandoned bird refuge has been freed. And some guys who burned brush illegally are in federal prison for 5 years. God Bless America. Meanwhile, back in Obama's hometown:

    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/01/...otings-monday/

    http://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/7/...across-chicago
    The sarcasm is strong in this one ......
    Not sure what Chicago Gang violence has to do with Oregon, but fair enough.. Because obviously this whole thing has had Obama completed tied up and unable to do other Presidenty things ...


    But to my point, you can't have people deliberately challenge the Government with armed take over, and not deal with it appropriately. You let this go with a slap on the wrist and you're left dealing with full-out Anarchy, as everyone will then take up arms and take over who knows what else.

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    Joey wrote: View Post

    Sucks someone had to die, especially because now he will be used as a martyr to their cause; but glad Bundy is behind bars though.
    Yes, now we can finally all sleep soundly at night. The abandoned bird refuge has been freed. And some guys who burned brush illegally are in federal prison for 5 years. God Bless America. Meanwhile, back in Obama's hometown:

    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/01/...otings-monday/

    http://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/7/...across-chicago

    Leave a comment:


  • Axel
    replied
    Y'all Qaeda

    Read somewhere that the guy killed had been very vocal about not being "taken" by the Feds. Had a quote from his daughter, will look for link.

    Seems to me that he was "that guy" - the one who takes something the farthest and wanted to be a martyr to some degree.
    Last edited by Axel; Wed Jan 27th, 2016, 02:39 PM.

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  • Joey
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    The other side of the story that's not getting too much press.http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/27...-standoff.html
    Not sure we can trust Ammon Bundy's word on this one either though.

    If there were 6 unbiased witnesses, I'm sure we'll hear from them at some point.


    Sucks someone had to die, especially because now he will be used as a martyr to their cause; but glad Bundy is behind bars though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    The other side of the story that's not getting too much press.
    Neither the FBI nor Oregon State Police released details about what set off the gunfire at the traffic stop. The Oregonian reported that the deceased man was 55-year-old Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, the group's spokesperson. Authorities said no other information about the deceased would be released pending formal identification by the local medical examiner's office.

    Finicum and Ryan Bundy allegedly disobeyed orders to surrender and resisted arrest, The Oregonian reported, citing sources. But that narrative is being challenged.

    Ammon Bundy told his wife that Finicum was cooperating with police when he was shot, according to Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore. A Facebook account reportedly operated by one of Finicum's 11 children, Thara Tenney, also said Finicum was cooperating.

    "I want the world to know how my father was murdered today," the post said. "His hands were in the air and he was shot in the face by the American authorities. Ammon Bundy reported there are six witnesses to this evil."
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/27...-standoff.html

    Leave a comment:

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