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  • #91
    There is as well has familial precedence here...the Bundy clan (with dad Cliven) pulled off a similar standoff a few years ago. The offspring wanted to take it a step further (the previous occasion being about their own property).

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    • #92
      Joey wrote: View Post
      The sarcasm is strong in this one ......
      Not sure what Chicago Gang violence has to do with Oregon, but fair enough.. Because obviously this whole thing has had Obama completed tied up and unable to do other Presidenty things ...


      But to my point, you can't have people deliberately challenge the Government with armed take over, and not deal with it appropriately. You let this go with a slap on the wrist and you're left dealing with full-out Anarchy, as everyone will then take up arms and take over who knows what else.
      No, you absolutely can't have people taking over lands with arms and not do anything. I agree. But the hysteria, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over a couple dozen guys occupying an abandoned cabin seemed more than a little ridiculous to me given all the problems certain US cities have with violence.

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      • #93
        slaw wrote: View Post
        No, you absolutely can't have people taking over lands with arms and not do anything. I agree. But the hysteria, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over a couple dozen guys occupying an abandoned cabin seemed more than a little ridiculous to me given all the problems certain US cities have with violence.
        I think you're slightly downplaying the situation...

        It wasn't "a couple of guys" (EDIT: I see you said "Couple dozen" ... I stand corrected, but point stands.).. there was at one point, more than 20 armed men from what I understand, who by saying they are willing "to die" for this, make it pretty clear they have plans of things getting violent - That's a militia.

        It also wasn't "an abandoned cabin" .. it's the headquarters for a 300 sq. mi. National Wildlife Refuge - which has, y'know, things to do, like not be held hostage by a bunch of yokels.


        Not to mention the different State governments (including Illinois), and City governments, have nothing to do with Oregon, and have full freedom to treat their own problems as they so choose. Why the President needs to be brought into this, I have no idea.
        Edit: I guess you just mention him in connection to Chicago, so fair enough.. but still. These really have nothing to do with one-another, and if they can't handle two things at once, then they've got bigger fish to fry.
        Last edited by Joey; Wed Jan 27th, 2016, 06:06 PM.

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        • #94
          slaw wrote: View Post
          No, you absolutely can't have people taking over lands with arms and not do anything. I agree. But the hysteria, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over a couple dozen guys occupying an abandoned cabin seemed more than a little ridiculous to me given all the problems certain US cities have with violence.
          Aren't you exaggerating a tad here.

          This was a armed takeover of federal buildings (abandoned cabin??) which served as the hdqtrs. for the refuge and storage of historical artifacts nevermind that employees could not come to work nor "normal" visitors to the refuge?

          These guys have a 1780s' view of the constitution and were about to set up a farcical kangaroo court. And this is fine but they were determined to tote their guns while doing so.

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          • #95
            "#BREAKING Ammon Bundy, through his attorney, asks remaining occupiers at wildlife refuge to stand down and go home. #LiveOnK2"

            Oh I smell a plea deal.. haha

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            • #96
              Joey wrote: View Post
              Not sure we can trust Ammon Bundy's word on this one either though.

              If there were 6 unbiased witnesses, I'm sure we'll hear from them at some point.


              Sucks someone had to die, especially because now he will be used as a martyr to their cause; but glad Bundy is behind bars though.
              It was on the side of the road. There are probably no unbiased witnesses on either side of this.

              rocwell wrote: View Post
              "#BREAKING Ammon Bundy, through his attorney, asks remaining occupiers at wildlife refuge to stand down and go home. #LiveOnK2"

              Oh I smell a plea deal.. haha
              Or the feds told him straight up they've had enough, will raid and they don't want this to turn into Waco, Texas. I don't think he takes a plea deal because his whole stance was he did nothing wrong. Taking a plea deal destroys all his credibility and the credibility of the rest in the group. When I refer to credibility, I'm referring to Americans who eat this stuff up and not us in this thread.

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              • #97
                Apollo wrote: View Post
                It was on the side of the road. There are probably no unbiased witnesses on either side of this.


                Or the feds told him straight up they've had enough, will raid and they don't want this to turn into Waco, Texas. I don't think he takes a plea deal because his whole stance was he did nothing wrong. Taking a plea deal destroys all his credibility and the credibility of the rest in the group. When I refer to credibility, I'm referring to Americans who eat this stuff up and not us in this thread.
                do i have waco wrong in my memory? i thought it was a suicide cult that killed itself because the feds were doing nothing outside.

                was it a raid that went badly?

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                • #98
                  Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                  do i have waco wrong in my memory? i thought it was a suicide cult that killed itself because the feds were doing nothing outside.

                  was it a raid that went badly?
                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

                  yes i do. what the hell i am confusing it with then?

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                  • #99
                    Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                    do i have waco wrong in my memory? i thought it was a suicide cult that killed itself because the feds were doing nothing outside.

                    was it a raid that went badly?
                    My understanding is that there was a standoff between a cult/militia/whatever and ATF. It turned into a crazy shootout, then a standoff and then eventually the building burned down with many inside it. Anyway, they raided the building was the point and those inside were armed and it led to a flurry of bullets. That's no good for either side in this Bundy standoff and so it makes sense that they stand down already and face the consequences.

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                    • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

                      yes i do. what the hell i am confusing it with then?
                      Perhaps you're thinking Jonestown?

                      They definitely did all kill themselves. Just with Kool-Aid.

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                      • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                        do i have waco wrong in my memory? i thought it was a suicide cult that killed itself because the feds were doing nothing outside.

                        was it a raid that went badly?
                        Maybe the Ruby Ridge fiasco?

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                        • Bendit wrote: View Post
                          Maybe the Ruby Ridge fiasco?
                          Fiasco is the only suitable word to describe that one ... man oh man.

                          They weren't a cult though .. just a family living in the middle of nowhere by themselves because Jesus told them to in order to avoid the apocalypse.....
                          Last edited by Joey; Thu Jan 28th, 2016, 12:33 AM.

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                          • Joey wrote: View Post
                            Fiasco is the only suitable word to describe that one ... man oh man.

                            They weren't a cult though .. just a family living in the middle of nowhere by themselves because Jesus told them to in order to avoid the apocalypse.....
                            If anyone feels like a watch of the docudrama...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrNGkDlbdF4


                            What is scary is that there are still plenty around who subscribe to that mindset.

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                            • Can't view the video where I am, what's is it that scares you?

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                              • Apollo wrote: View Post
                                Can't view the video where I am, what's is it that scares you?
                                In the context of Oregon...the individuals in the Ruby Ridge case had commonalities...militaristic, guns, religion, anti govt. and did not appear at court dates (like the law did not apply) etc.

                                These numbers seem to be increasing and of course so is the sophistication of the weaponry. The one positive thing from what I remember of this incident is that the fbi and other agencies learned some lessons and were more patient so far with the Oregon standoff. They were quite bad actually in the RR & Waco incidents.

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