SN: "Vince Carter: The re-imagination of VC"

[planetmars]

The thing about Vince is you will never be able to stop a fan from booing. So if the idea is to have some kind of night where we honour what he did in the past it can become awkward very quickly. There may be a mix of cheers and boos. And no amount of magazine articles, tv shows, or reunions are going to fix that.

So if they are going to have some kind of night where they celebrate the Raptors existence, well they should bring back guys like Damon, Jose, Oak, JYD, Mugsy, A-Dub, Parker, Mo-Pete etc.. You know the guys that people will love no matter what. They may not be the best Raptors to ever play the game (like Vince, T-Mac, Bosh) but you won't hear a boo and that should be the point.

[Superjudge]

I think the bigger concern (at least for me) is the implication that any sort of anti-VC opinion is "hate".

I objectively review the facts and come to the personal conclusion that I would prefer VC to have no future association with the Toronto Raptors franchise.

Having that opinion does not mean I "hate" VC, therefore my opinion is not the least bit immature or dysfunctional, according to the subjective logic you've been applying.

my posts were part of a conversation with Apollo and another guy.

why are you people all assuming I am talking directly to you?

bah

[CalgaryRapsFan]

my posts were part of a conversation with Apollo and another guy.

why are you people all assuming I am talking directly to you?

bah

I wasn't. I read a reply of yours to another poster, thought you had misunderstood his point a little bit, and attempted to interject. It followed similar exchanges you had with multiple posters earlier in the thread, including myself (I believe).

[Superjudge]

I watched plenty. He was killing right around, or just after I was actually playing a pretty good level of ball in college. I knew what I was watching and at the time I was furious with him. He whined, he would let marginal injuries become an excuse to pout and give half assed efforts. He cracked under the pressure and gave immature interviews.

I hated him.

I was also a kid myself, mid to late 20's, had an idea, but not a clear understanding of how things in pro sports happen. How its a business, and its shady, and affected by business people who have no idea what they are doing, how it can affect players and how young men, coddled most their lives can sometimes crack under the stress, the exposure and deification. I wasn't completely able to see how ridiculous it was that the Raptors gave him so much say in who to sign after they had such a run.... and how the media can be so quick to turn on a young man who had made mistakes, and place a boatload of blame, and negativity upon shoulders that couldn't even handle the success, let alone the failure. I didn't quite understand. I just saw the result, and that result made me a little sick.

I was in my 20's then. I am 41 now. I know the business of sports very well now. I see how things work. I am not at all unable to separate my anger for a small sample of a young mans action on the basketball court from the much larger, and much more complicated web of complications, lies, and half truths that are released to the media, twisted to create stories to sell advertising, and used to either create gods, or tear down mortal men at their leisure. I am ell aware of what I was watching back then. I was mentally equipped to understand it a high level due to my own experience, and as a fan I was privy to the anger we get when our hero's fail us. I am proud to say I am not swayed too much by what I saw, I mean I certainly expected, or would have liked to see more, but I didn't. We didn't. Vince Carter failed. He failed because his franchise, and his management failed him. Together, they had forged a relationship doomed to fail and when it all happened, the media, and the fan base, as is the nature of humans in large crowds, needed a singular place in which to vent their anger, and that target was Vince Carter.

I notice that most people, if not all, who were raptor fans back then, remained Raptor fans. Where Vince shared in the problem that led to the unfortunate failure of the team in his time in Toronto, he did only SHARE in that. The larger source of the problem, the franchise and its MLSE management itself, got ZERO hate. All of us kept cheering, kept showing up, kept paying, kept watching. We picked sides, and logically, and locally, it made sense to pick the franchise as the righteous entity, and label Carter the nemesis.

And so, years later, people only half remembering, and as many had no idea then, and still have no idea today what really transpired, they only remember "Vince carter is bad, he is an evil, lazy, asshole of a man". The truth is much different. Instead, and more accurately, the truth is closer to this; Vince Carter is a good guy. As a young man, despite having physical abilities beyond many of his peers, he was not suited to role of Pro sports leader or superstar. He was never one with a killer instinct, never the guy to lead a franchise, and no matter how much we all desperately, HE desperately wanted to be that guy, it was always going to fail. What was left after his collapse, was hatred, and a lack of respect for a man who was anything but negative, anything but mean spirited, or dishonorable. What was left was a man who just wanted to play basketball and forget about the past. He was a guy that on many occasions apologized for his actions, and when pushed would never throw anyone under the bus. He accepted his role in his failure in Toronto, he has always endorsed the city and its inhabitants, and to this day still talks about how great a place the city is. Vince Carter is just a man. He isn't a hero, or a god. He didn't do wrong to one person in the Toronto fanbase personally, an dI would offer that whatever fans think they were cheated out of, Carter himself has paid for 1000 times over. Its time to let this stay in the past.

People will want to argue this. You can if you like but you will be wrong. Its not right to place hatred on professional athletes. It isn't right to sight a person for his failures, and to never forgive them (as if its ANYNOES right to judge). As a society we have a hard time separating reality form our "hero's". But if you are able to finally strip all the bullshit deification media and culture has placed upon these people, when you finally see them as equals, simply men and women who excelled at something we all liked to watch, but just people nonetheless, then, and only then will you begin to realize why its wrong to have hatred, negative thoughts or anger towards them when they don't meet our standards. When they are human, just like us. When you no longer place your hero's on pedestals, you will finally have no problem when they fall, and the fall will be a small one.

I am at that point in life and have been for a decade or so. I don't hold a grudge on any athlete, and I certainly don't dislike Vince Carter. He's fine by me. I think he'd be a cool guy to have dinner with, and I would gladly call him a friend if a met him.

Ya.

this is the post i have to defend here on this thread.
This is the one the lacks depth.
this was the post that had TOO MUCH depth (yes, there are posts that say both.... incredibly)
This is what you guys call an embarrassment.
This is the one that is too much.
This is the one that has me painted as wearing pom poms, and wanting to kiss Carters ass, build him a statue, and retire his jersey.

It wasn't even a fucking argument, it was my take on the subject at hand, AND, likely the best take on this thread so far because it takes into account a few points of interest rarely brought up in the media or on messageboards, but, points of interest nonetheless regarding the managements part in it all, and the expectations that were placed upon the athlete, even though he wasn't charged with making the actual team great. This post states strongly how I disliked his actions, how I thought him weak, and how his actions at the time made me sick... I was pretty into it back then. The thread was about the show. Apollo went all aggro about vince.... this was my response after a few posts started getting more and more angry..... so ya, you guys can get all pissy if you'd like, insult me, scold me, but I won't really be fazed beyond the frustration of dealing with comments that are completely irrelevant to the subject matter I posted.. fuck man, stop being so lazy.

[Letter N]

Ya.

this is the post i have to defend here on this thread.
This is the one the lacks depth.
this was the post that had TOO MUCH depth (yes, there are posts that say both.... incredibly)
This is what you guys call an embarrassment.
This is the one that is too much.
This is the one that has me painted as wearing pom poms, and wanting to kiss Carters ass, build him a statue, and retire his jersey.

It wasn't even a fucking argument, it was my take on the subject at hand, AND, likely the best take on this thread so far because it takes into account a few points of interest rarely brought up in the media or on messageboards, but, points of interest nonetheless regarding the managements part in it all, and the expectations that were placed upon the athlete, even though he wasn't charged with making the actual team great. This post states strongly how I disliked his actions, how I thought him weak, and how his actions at the time made me sick... I was pretty into it back then. The thread was about the show. Apollo went all aggro about vince.... this was my response after a few posts started getting more and more angry..... so ya, you guys can get all pissy if you'd like, insult me, scold me, but I won't really be fazed beyond the frustration of dealing with comments that are completely irrelevant to the subject matter I posted.. fuck man, stop being so lazy.

You mad?

[Superjudge]

No sir.

[gametime]

Documentary is on Sportsnet right now. (interesting: Rob Babcock admitting his lopsided Carter deal cost him future NBA opportunities)

[Machine]

I was expecting the doc to be much better. Pretty weak job by Grange imo.

[iblastoff]

it was shorter than i expected. but either way i have no problem with VC. looks like the twitter world is mostly approving as well

[ballfolife23]

Anybody know who Vince was talkin about when he said that someone from management sent him a 2 page letter apologizing to him?

[MACK11]

What I picked up from this was Babcock is an idiot

[JRedmond14]

Vince gave up on us a long time ago. It's now time for us (the city of Toronto) to give up on Vince because we are really just a stage 5 clinger by now haha

[BallaBalla]

I think what you meant to say was:
I was a huge Vince fan from the start but Babcock handcuffed this franchise. His trade is one of the worst of all time. A player of Vince's calibre got traded for virtually nothing and that is Babcock's fault. Vince immediately started playing like we all knew he could as soon as he got to NJ. I'm not out for revenge or anything but let's not ignore the latter when it comes to forgiving and forgetting. Vince did a lot for this franchise, but I watched A LOT of terrible games after his departure and that's what I'll remember him for. Incredible talent, incredibly wasted.

I watched this thing tonight (obviously). Without question the thing that had me shaking my head was what Babcock had to say defending his trade...holy Sh*t this guy belongs in a nut house. I really think I could have done a better job than he did.

Anyway, this thing was BS.

VC is not apologizing and is claiming that there's a "WHOLE OTHER STORY" that we haven't heard.

Either tell us the story, apologize, or shut the eff up.

[BallaBalla]

Anybody know who Vince was talkin about when he said that someone from management sent him a 2 page letter apologizing to him?

exactly....if he's so misunderstood...why can't we know?

[The Great One]

The thing that struck me the most is what a poor job Richard Peddie did of managing things. And Rob Babcock everytime i see that guy i just get mad. I mean, he seriously thinks that getting Mourning, the 2 Williams + a 1st round was a great trade??

Anyway, I'd really love to see the Raptors bring VC back next year as a veteran bench player. He'd have a lot to offer, and it just seems right that he finishes off his career here.