Everything Kyle Lowry

[JWash]

From strictly a talent perspective, if you were to insert Bosh as our starting 4; we'd be title contenders. Bosh provides the additional spacing we would need in the Startling line up; is great defensively at both the 4 and 5 (which helps give us a lethal 4/5 combination with him and JV) and, most importantly, would help allow Lowry to be fresher in the post season.

The only thing that wouldn't make that team a title contender is Casey and I don't think even he could mess this one up.

I'd change this to "finals". Might be able to push Cleveland but we'd get annihilated by GS or San Antonio.

[Barolt]

The story with Lowry and Billups is oddly similar.

Score first guards who didn't really get a real shot at running a team full-time until their mid-late 20s. Then blossomed into all-star in their late twenties. Billups went on to play at a star level until he was like 34. Maybe Lowry can do the same.

As good as Lowry is, I think you're doing a disservice to Billups with this comparison. His best seasons were really, really outstanding. Billups' career TS% is better than the best season in Lowry's career.

[Just Is]

I'd change this to "finals". Might be able to push Cleveland but we'd get annihilated by GS or San Antonio.

It's actually why I put the qualifier on Casey there.

GS or San Antonio will be too beat up by facing each other (and depending on who won, possibly the Thunder as well). Ripe for the pickings...of course, you're still right and I changed my original post there.

[JWash]

It's actually why I put the qualifier on Casey there.

GS or San Antonio will be too beat up by facing each other (and depending on who won, possibly the Thunder as well). Ripe for the pickings...of course, you're still right and I changed my original post there.

I hear people say this every year in the playoffs and it's clear as day from looking at trends over the years that this plays next to no factor in how well a team does in the playoffs unless somebody actually gets injured and cannot play.

[Nilanka]

The story with Lowry and Billups is oddly similar.

Score first guards who didn't really get a real shot at running a team full-time until their mid-late 20s. Then blossomed into all-star in their late twenties. Billups went on to play at a star level until he was like 34. Maybe Lowry can do the same.

Games were different though. Billups was much more methodical/controlled with how he played. That ages well.

[Just Is]

I hear people say this every year in the playoffs and it's clear as day from looking at trends over the years that this plays next to no factor in how well a team does in the playoffs unless somebody actually gets injured and cannot play.

I agree with you...but if the Raptors WERE to make the finals ... then this would be the first time that that trend is broken.

[KeonClark]

As good as Lowry is, I think you're doing a disservice to Billups with this comparison. His best seasons were really, really outstanding. Billups' career TS% is better than the best season in Lowry's career.

Billups also never made an all star game until he was 30 and never scored 20 ppg. I think it could also be called a disservice to Lowry to dismiss the comparison altogether until we can see if he keeps this level for 4 or 5 more years and leads a team very deep into the early summer playoffs.

[Barolt]

Billups also never made an all star game until he was 30 and never scored 20 ppg. I think it could also be called a disservice to Lowry to dismiss the comparison altogether until we can see if he keeps this level for 4 or 5 more years and leads a team very deep into the early summer playoffs.

Billups won his title and finals MVP at 27. Seriously, compare his advanced stats to Lowry's. The comparison just isn't that good.

Lowry is a very, very good player. One of the 20 or so best in the game right now. Billups might be one of the 100 best players ever to play the game.

[JWash]

As good as Lowry is, I think you're doing a disservice to Billups with this comparison. His best seasons were really, really outstanding. Billups' career TS% is better than the best season in Lowry's career.

Billups also never made an all star game until he was 30 and never scored 20 ppg. I think it could also be called a disservice to Lowry to dismiss the comparison altogether until we can see if he keeps this level for 4 or 5 more years and leads a team very deep into the early summer playoffs.

I get what both of you are saying, but there's a reason why Billups was able to be more efficient than Lowry and also a reason why ppg doesn't tell the whole story.

Billups was more efficient, definitely his TS% was always around 60% in his prime years, while Lowry's been in the mid-high 50s. Billups has eclipsed Lowry's career high WS/48 of .203 on 4 different occasions (3 of which came after 30... like wtf). I think that Billups was able to do this though because 1.) He didn't have as large of a scoring role on the Pistons, as in he wasn't needed or asked to pour in 20 a game and 2.) Because the Pistons, for all the talk about their defense, played a way better offensive system than we do especially under Flip Saunders in the mid 2000s. The ball hummed on that team. Obviously Rip and Chauncey still got theirs, but those teams were excellent at moving the basketball to create easy scoring opportunities.

I wonder if Lowry and DeRozan could take that next step if we improved the offensive system to lessen their burden and generate easier looks on the offensive end.

[JWash]

Billups won his title and finals MVP at 27. Seriously, compare his advanced stats to Lowry's. The comparison just isn't that good.

Lowry is a very, very good player. One of the 20 or so best in the game right now. Billups might be one of the 100 best players ever to play the game.

It's not a bad comparison at all actually. Lowry just hasn't quite reached the levels that Billups did... yet. However he potentially could if our team as a whole was better and played a better style.

[Barolt]

I get what both of you are saying, but there's a reason why Billups was able to be more efficient than Lowry and also a reason why ppg doesn't tell the whole story.

Billups was more efficient, definitely his TS% was always around 60% in his prime years, while Lowry's been in the mid-high 50s. Billups has eclipsed Lowry's career high WS/48 of .203 on 4 different occasions (3 of which came after 30... like wtf). I think that Billups was able to do this though because 1.) He didn't have as large of a scoring role on the Pistons, as in he wasn't needed or asked to pour in 20 a game and 2.) Because the Pistons, for all the talk about their defense, played a way better offensive system than we do especially under Flip Saunders in the mid 2000s. The ball hummed on that team. Obviously Rip and Chauncey still got theirs, but those teams were excellent at moving the basketball to create easy scoring opportunities.

I wonder if Lowry and DeRozan could take that next step if we improved the offensive system to lessen their burden and generate easier looks on the offensive end.

I love Rip and Chauncey, and I'm a huge fan of Lowry and somewhat coming around on DeMar(give me time and let him continue the better decision making). If Lowry becomes 30+ Billups that'd be a dream. DeMar and Rip as a comparison I don't like because of the differences in how they get their offense. DeMar's a guy who likes the ball in his hands, Rip was a off-screen type of player. The mid-range version of Ray Allen.

I actually think DeMar's better than Rip was though, and most around here consider me a DeMar hater. Rip played in a better system for a better coach though, and DeMar's decision making before this season was... flawed, at best.

[Snooch]

Yeah JV is never touching Big Ben's impact unfortunately. He was basically the equivalent of Steph's offense but on the defensive end.

Rip and DD is oddly similar too. Both guys were pretty inefficient mid-range jumpshooters until Rip randomly got efficient at age 27, and DD is doing the same thing now at 26. They did it differently though. Rip just got absurdly good at shooting long 2s and added a respectable 3. DeRozan is doing it by attacking the paint more.

[Snooch]

I love Rip and Chauncey, and I'm a huge fan of Lowry and somewhat coming around on DeMar(give me time and let him continue the better decision making). If Lowry becomes 30+ Billups that'd be a dream. DeMar and Rip as a comparison I don't like because of the differences in how they get their offense. DeMar's a guy who likes the ball in his hands, Rip was a off-screen type of player. The mid-range version of Ray Allen.

I actually think DeMar's better than Rip was though, and most around here consider me a DeMar hater. Rip played in a better system for a better coach though, and DeMar's decision making before this season was... flawed, at best.

rip was better than Demar. you take the entire package of todays Demar and compare that to just the defense of RIP....and Rip wins overall better player.

[Barolt]

rip was better than Demar. you take the entire package of todays Demar and compare that to just the defense of RIP....and Rip wins overall better player.

There's a lot of differences between the two, but a big one is that Rip played surrounded by defensive studs. He was also asked to do a lot less.

DeMar's not nearly the defender Rip was, but you also couldn't build an offense around Rip. Whether or not you can win a title building around DeMar is yet to be seen, but he can be the centerpiece of a solid offense. I'm not a DeMar lover either, you know this.

[KeonClark]

There's a lot of differences between the two, but a big one is that Rip played surrounded by defensive studs. He was also asked to do a lot less.

DeMar's not nearly the defender Rip was, but you also couldn't build an offense around Rip. Whether or not you can win a title building around DeMar is yet to be seen, but he can be the centerpiece of a solid offense. I'm not a DeMar lover either, you know this.

There's a difference in between hard on demar and being a demar hater. I was and can still be a vocal critic. But now that he is leading the league in drives per game and clearly, CLEARLY helping us win I'm enjoying it. Certain members of this board that you and I have had discussions with just seem to generally not want him to succeed, which I frankly find...weird.