Everything Dwane Casey

[DanH]

This is 100% conjecture. We have no knowledge of Casey being stubborn and not listening to his assistants. All this is based on is Nick Nurse coming to Toronto from a D League team that shot a lot of 3 pointers and not completely revamping the offensive system until the command came down from above to do so.

Well, we can't KNOW anything, but the media stories on the new offensive system were all about how in 2013 Nurse pitched this system upon being hired and it just didn't happen until now.

[DanH]

Third option: those who are skeptical about having a head nurse are saying he might have a wuss personality to be a leader of alpha males.

Yeah, the guy has been a head coach overseas and in the G-League, but we all know not a single alpha male exists in those leagues.

You can be worried about that all you like. Him performing the role of an assistant coach when he was an assistant coach is not evidence of that at all, though.

[S.R.]

This is 100% conjecture. We have no knowledge of Casey being stubborn and not listening to his assistants. All this is based on is Nick Nurse coming to Toronto from a D League team that shot a lot of 3 pointers and not completely revamping the offensive system until the command came down from above to do so.

No, it isn't pure conjecture. We know Nurse proposed his system when he was first hired and it wasn't implemented (or a form of it) until mandated by Ujiri. We know this because everybody involved - players, coaches, management - have admitted as much, on the record, to the press.

There were enough pieces featuring the details written about it during the year, here's one of them:

"Change was the goal when the Raptors hired Nick Nurse, an offensive guru from the (then) D-League, in the summer of 2013. Nurse came in for an interview, and on an office whiteboard drew the offense he envisioned: different starting points, reads, passes, options. "The framework of what we are doing now," Nurse says, "was up on that board."

Dwane Casey, the team's head coach, liked Nurse's ideas. For various reasons, they never made it onto the court for long. Perhaps no one felt enough urgency until Cleveland swept them and Ujiri spoke out."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...to-raptors-nba

Nurse is a very different coach than Casey. I'm not arguing for anything one way or the other but I find this presumption that promoting an assistant or Stack "won't provide a different voice" a bit strange. Haven't seen anything presented to support that other than arguments from ignorance (citing the logical fallacy, not insulting anybody).

[Other Scott]

"Dwane Casey, the team's head coach, liked Nurse's ideas. For various reasons, they never made it onto the court for long."

Does this sound like a scenario where a head coach was being stubborn and just never listening to his assistants? Maybe for some of you it does. Maybe for some of you the "various reasons" were Dwane just outright rejecting things.

But it doesn't sound like it. I think it's definitely conjecture to say Nick Nurse didn't have a large say in how the Raptors were run and coached. And if you think coaching failed the Raptors, then it's the entire staff failing, not just Dwane.

[KeonClark]

"Dwane Casey, the team's head coach, liked Nurse's ideas. For various reasons, they never made it onto the court for long."

Does this sound like a scenario where a head coach was being stubborn and just never listening to his assistants? Maybe for some of you it does. Maybe for some of you the "various reasons" were Dwane just outright rejecting things.

But it doesn't sound like it. I think it's definitely conjecture to say Nick Nurse didn't have a large say in how the Raptors were run and coached. And if you think coaching failed the Raptors, then it's the entire staff failing, not just Dwane.

Well in your post accusing conjecture you've sprinkled in some guess work yourself, lol. We just don't know how much blame or credit or lack of there is one way or the other. Masai ujiri would have a pretty good idea. So I'll trust his judgement on whether promoting from within is a good idea or a bad idea

[white men can't jump]

"Dwane Casey, the team's head coach, liked Nurse's ideas. For various reasons, they never made it onto the court for long."

Does this sound like a scenario where a head coach was being stubborn and just never listening to his assistants? Maybe for some of you it does. Maybe for some of you the "various reasons" were Dwane just outright rejecting things.

But it doesn't sound like it. I think it's definitely conjecture to say Nick Nurse didn't have a large say in how the Raptors were run and coached. And if you think coaching failed the Raptors, then it's the entire staff failing, not just Dwane.

So the head coach apparently liked his ideas but didn't even bother trying to implement them until the GM forced him to?

Yeah, that sounds like a leadership problem from the head coach. Stubborn, scared of change...whatever it is, it should not reflect on Nurse.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Rudy Bargnani]

I found that in interviews Casey largely said the right things RE ball movement and tempo, but the on court product didn’t reflect that consistently. This presents another possibility that I think is somewhat probable:
The players (Derozan in particular) didn’t do a good job of doing what they are supposed to do and the coaching staff didn’t hold him accountable. IE for playing ball dominant, slow pace and poor D.

Some reports suggest not holding Demar accountable was a factor in Casey’s firing.

Now—should the assistants be at fault for not holding Derozan accountable? I would suggest benching or disciplining an all star has to come from the head coach. For all we know Nurse suggested Casey hook Derozan earlier in the cavs series but Dwayne gave him a long leash. Obviously we don’t know. But I don’t fault Nurse for Derozan letting Kyle Korver and JR Smith look like the splash brothers and holding the ball for too long while the cavs set up on d.

[GOLDBLUM]

I get that this is all conjecture and I trust Masai to know more than we do and make the right decision.

That said, I'm inclined to agree with OtherScott in principal. To me, it's not necessarily so much about being a leader as it is what you have to offer. Now, we can debate how much input Nurse was allowed to really have with what he has to offer.. (I've seen it said that Casey let Rex & Nurse roam the sidelines and pitch in during the games more than most NBA coaches would) but their ideas were there for the taking. Presumably they were implemented to a greater or lesser extent. Bringing in someone like Messina or Hammond however means the opportunity to offer something NEW. That appeals. After the shit we saw, that appeals.

Now that said, we had our best season ever and did a lot of things really, really well. Perhaps comes down to whether we're just a few small tinkerings away from figuring out how to breakthrough, or whether we need a whole new influx of ideas to shake the thing that's preventing us from putting it together in the postseason.

(And of course none of that takes into account roster considerations. Nor the lord of darkness, Lebronto James.)

[Mapko]

"Dwane Casey, the team's head coach, liked Nurse's ideas. For various reasons, they never made it onto the court for long."

Does this sound like a scenario where a head coach was being stubborn and just never listening to his assistants? Maybe for some of you it does. Maybe for some of you the "various reasons" were Dwane just outright rejecting things.

But it doesn't sound like it. I think it's definitely conjecture to say Nick Nurse didn't have a large say in how the Raptors were run and coached. And if you think coaching failed the Raptors, then it's the entire staff failing, not just Dwane.

How does this make sense?
We hire Nurse as an offensive assistant "who pitches great system". If Casey was not planning on implementing that system, why in the world hire the guy?

[Primer]

Casey was in love with iso ball. Remember the Lou Williams era. Every single fucking quarter ended with a Lou Williams iso fading to the left contested 3 point shot. This was the play Casey wanted every time, he called for it, and it almost never worked, ye he called for it every time.

I think the idea of a horns offense made Casey's head hurt. "Too complicated, just give the ball to Demar or Lowry and let them create."

[Joey]

Pistons targeting Casey for the HC position. Interesting!

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/05/2...et-dwane-casey

[Abbas]

Pistons targeting Casey for the HC position. Interesting!

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/05/2...et-dwane-casey

Drummond will look like Rodman in Casey's system. He'll be a playoff Bismack on steroids.

I personally believe Lamarcus Aldridge is the PF version of DeRozan but Griffin is a close second. He will strive under Casey.

Reggie Jackson is a mystery but I know for a fact everyone here (regardless of if don't like him) knows if if there's one thing Casey is elite at, it is getting the most out of his players.


Pistons just need a bit of shooting, and I think Casey can get them to 50-55 wins every year

[KeonClark]

Drummond will look like Rodman in Casey's system. He'll be a playoff Bismack on steroids.

I personally believe Lamarcus Aldridge is the PF version of DeRozan but Griffin is a close second. He will strive under Casey.

Reggie Jackson is a mystery but I know for a fact everyone here (regardless of if don't like him) knows if if there's one thing Casey is elite at, it is getting the most out of his players.


Pistons just need a bit of shooting, and I think Casey can get them to 50-55 wins every year

They need a lot of help. They won 39 last year, I highly doubt Casey is worth 11 to 16 wins over Stan Van

[The Great One]

Again, if i was the GM of a team like the Pistons who BADLY need a PG. The FIRST guy that i would target is Marcus Smart. I love that dude. Smart is the type of player you win with.

They already have Drummond and Griffin on theor team. Kennard is their SG. Add Smart to that team along with a SF who can shoot. That's a playoff team.

[DanH]

Again, if i was the GM of a team like the Pistons who BADLY need a PG. The FIRST guy that i would target is Marcus Smart. I love that dude. Smart is the type of player you win with.

They already have Drummond and Griffin on theor team. Kennard is their SG. Add Smart to that team along with a SF who can shoot. That's a playoff team.

Problem is, the Pistons are well over the cap and near the tax already. Unless they can get Smart for the MLE, how do they make such an upgrade? Let alone also finding a SF who can shoot.