Tom Thibs to Toronto next season?

[distorsun]

Pros: Better D
Cons : Equal or worst O
---
Answer : Yes

[SamMitchells]

Tom Thibs to Toronto next season?

Can we start a petition?



You know I was speaking to some people close to me... We have concluded that Dwayne Casey is not respected enough to hold his players accountable. His job is basically on the fingers of kyle Lowry and demar DeRozan.
He knows that and so does the whole raptors organization.
Which is why he's a terrible fit for our team. We need a coach that can bench lowry when he's shooting wild shots.
Though I don't completely blame Lowry in those situations. We need a coach that draws up plays that produce high percentage looks. And if players stray from that game plan then they need to be benched.

Did you guys see Carlisle yell at rando and bench him the rest of the game? Someone needs to be able to do that but in our situation it should be like ...
"WHEN JV HAS 20 PTS 10 RBS YOU FEED HIM CONSECUTIVE POSSESSIONS, YOU CAN'T SHOOT WITH A HAND IN YOUR FACE, GET THE FUCK ON THE BENCH AND SHUT THE FUCK UP"

[Mediumcore]

If there is a clear upgrade to be had (which Thibs is) then there is no question you make the move.

[DDelight]

I don't see how anyone would prefer Casey to Thibodeau. Thibs defensive style would be much more suitable to our personnel. You wouldn't have to worry as much about JV losing minutes because he wasn't getting out to the 3 point line quick enough, as Thibodeau doesn't use this "scramble" defense philosophy.

But in terms of offense. We've played Chicago twice, and I've watched them play other teams many times and I can't say there's anything special about their offense. I think they just have good players with a lot of experience and so that is why they're a top team. Chicago obviously doesn't play a style akin to Atlanta's with the beautiful ball movement leading to 3s. I've seen Derrick Rose have multiple 1-10 or 2-11 outings. Are we actually sure he'd be able to stop DeMar from shooting 7-21 or Kyle 4-14?

[Axel]

I don't see how anyone would prefer Casey to Thibodeau. Thibs defensive style would be much more suitable to our personnel. You wouldn't have to worry as much about JV losing minutes because he wasn't getting out to the 3 point line quick enough, as Thibodeau doesn't use this "scramble" defense philosophy.

But in terms of offense. We've played Chicago twice, and I've watched them play other teams many times and I can't say there's anything special about their offense. I think they just have good players with a lot of experience and so that is why they're a top team. Chicago obviously doesn't play a style akin to Atlanta's with the beautiful ball movement leading to 3s. I've seen Derrick Rose have multiple 1-10 or 2-11 outings. Are we actually sure he'd be able to stop DeMar from shooting 7-21 or Kyle 4-14?

He wouldn't, but he would be much more likely to get after them for poor shooting choices.

His defensive scheme would be a significant upgrade for our personnel.

[ceez]

we don't have the players to run Thib's system

hell we don't really have the players to run Casey's system

[Axel]

we don't have the players to run Thib's system

hell we don't really have the players to run Casey's system

I think JV is better suited for Thib's PnR Defence. I think Amir can play in any D scheme. Lowry can too, but needs help to stay engaged on D. JJ and Ross should be fine with Thibs.

DD is the only real question but I think if Thibs can roll with Augustin, and Dunleavy, then Demar should be fine.

[Bendit]

He wouldn't, but he would be much more likely to get after them for poor shooting choices.

His defensive scheme would be a significant upgrade for our personnel.

we don't have the players to run Thib's system

hell we don't really have the players to run Casey's system

Good coaches can teach. The team has some good athletes and Thibodeau is big on repetitive practice drills. It can be done at this level.

[Bendit]

^^
Above was meant as reply to Ceez only.

[Axel]

^^
Above was meant as reply to Ceez only.

that's alright, I like being included too

[Mediumcore]

I don't see how anyone would prefer Casey to Thibodeau. Thibs defensive style would be much more suitable to our personnel. You wouldn't have to worry as much about JV losing minutes because he wasn't getting out to the 3 point line quick enough, as Thibodeau doesn't use this "scramble" defense philosophy.

But in terms of offense. We've played Chicago twice, and I've watched them play other teams many times and I can't say there's anything special about their offense. I think they just have good players with a lot of experience and so that is why they're a top team. Chicago obviously doesn't play a style akin to Atlanta's with the beautiful ball movement leading to 3s. I've seen Derrick Rose have multiple 1-10 or 2-11 outings. Are we actually sure he'd be able to stop DeMar from shooting 7-21 or Kyle 4-14?

I have to disagree with the bolded. Chicago's defense is anchored by one of the most mobile centres in the league, in Noah. He routinely is able to defend out of the paint and get back to the paint for help defense. Then there is Butler whom is a top notch defender as well. Hienrich is great too.

On the Raptors I think Lowry shares too much of the offensive burden to fully be focused as a defender. JJ and Amir are good but Amir is hobbled. I don't really see personnel being better suited for Thibs' schemes.

[Axel]

I have to disagree with the bolded. Chicago's defense is anchored by one of the most mobile centres in the league, in Noah. He routinely is able to defend out of the paint and get back to the paint for help defense. Then there is Butler whom is a top notch defender as well. Hienrich is great too.

On the Raptors I think Lowry shares too much of the offensive burden to fully be focused as a defender. JJ and Amir are good but Amir is hobbled. I don't really see personnel being better suited for Thibs' schemes.

I think our personnel would work. Remember that Thibs system worked in Boston as well with different personnel.

Perkins wasn't a mobile center and it worked. (JV)
KG was a lean, intelligent defender. (Amir/PP)
Pierce was a slower but larger defender on the wing. (JJ)
Allen was a steady but not spectacular defender. (? - maybe DD)
Rondo was much better on ball than I would expect from Lowry.

[Bendit]

I have to disagree with the bolded. Chicago's defense is anchored by one of the most mobile centres in the league, in Noah. He routinely is able to defend out of the paint and get back to the paint for help defense. Then there is Butler whom is a top notch defender as well. Hienrich is great too.

On the Raptors I think Lowry shares too much of the offensive burden to fully be focused as a defender. JJ and Amir are good but Amir is hobbled. I don't really see personnel being better suited for Thibs' schemes.

At the risk of repeating, it is a bit of a putdown to good coaches that they are straightjacketed by a single defensive system. They tend to know to their personnel and adapt . Axel's post above shows Thibodeau can.

[DDelight]

I have to disagree with the bolded. Chicago's defense is anchored by one of the most mobile centres in the league, in Noah. He routinely is able to defend out of the paint and get back to the paint for help defense. Then there is Butler whom is a top notch defender as well. Hienrich is great too.

On the Raptors I think Lowry shares too much of the offensive burden to fully be focused as a defender. JJ and Amir are good but Amir is hobbled. I don't really see personnel being better suited for Thibs' schemes.

You could argue that JJ is our Jimmy Butler and Amir/Patterson is our Noah. Derrick Rose is not that good of a defender and Dunleavy is pretty mediocre. So basically Lowry and DeMar.

I honestly just don't like Casey's style of defense, though to be fair, since inserting James Johnson into the starting lineup, we have been light years better defensively. Most we've given up in 6 games is 100 points. Everything else has been under that. If Patterson was inserted into the starting lineup, maybe that could help with spacing and overall more intelligent plays and Casey wouldn't look so bad.

[Mediumcore]

I think our personnel would work. Remember that Thibs system worked in Boston as well with different personnel.

Perkins wasn't a mobile center and it worked. (JV)
KG was a lean, intelligent defender. (Amir/PP)
Pierce was a slower but larger defender on the wing. (JJ)
Allen was a steady but not spectacular defender. (? - maybe DD)
Rondo was much better on ball than I would expect from Lowry.

I'm not saying that Thibs' defense wouldn't work with the Raptors. He's a great defensive coach and is able to get players anywhere to play defense. I was disagreeing with the idea that his defensive scheme is much more suitable to the Raptors personnel. Going back to Boston, you really can't compare. You're talking about one of the best defenders of all time in KG, Rondo routinely leads the league in steals and is always a top notch defender, and everyone knows what T. Allen can do. On top of that Pierce was always a really smart defender and even though he was never great he was never what you would call a liability on that end of the floor.