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Thread: Politics - The Legend Continues...

  1. #8561
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post

    So the appt. of Mulvaney to the CFPB should be music to the ears of the billionaire eh?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/12/trum...y-lending.html
    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?” J.M. Keynes

  2. #8562
    Raptors Republic Veteran slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Re: the peremptory challenges during the jury selection for the Boushie trial...





    http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...digenous-names
    Maybe it's time for them to go but maybe not. The rationale behind peremptory challenges is that some people who are in the jury pool will say and do all the right things but experienced trial counsel, especially good ones, often have very good instincts about jurors. They may not have cause to excuse someone but they may have a pretty good hunch someone would be bad for their client. Obviously, it's a tool that can be 'abused' but it's also an important tool for counsel - on both sides.

  3. #8563
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Maybe it's time for them to go but maybe not. The rationale behind peremptory challenges is that some people who are in the jury pool will say and do all the right things but experienced trial counsel, especially good ones, often have very good instincts about jurors. They may not have cause to excuse someone but they may have a pretty good hunch someone would be bad for their client. Obviously, it's a tool that can be 'abused' but it's also an important tool for counsel - on both sides.
    Solid post. I like this slaw better. haha Ya I was trying to figure out what legitimate cause they could serve, and it came down to "instincts" in my mind as well. But still, as you say, if it is something that is fairly open to abuse, I am not against at least exploring alternatives or improvements. And if it's the best we can do, then so be it; I'm not so sure it is, but I'm no legal expert.

  4. #8564
    Raptors Republic Icon rocwell's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    To be honest I was unaware of the incident (Aug. 2016) and came to this during the trial this year. So, no, I don't remember the headlines you cite. I tried to search going back and found a couple of dispatches by CBC and they cited the name not the race. Can you provide some examples of this reportage you mention?

    As you know, native peoples (especially it seems more so in the west probably because they are in greater numbers in the population) have a tenuous relationship with the majority. So yes, race is always an underlying current when bad things happen. But that Canadian MSM (generalizing) with their headlines baited based on race is a serious charge to make.

    ps...actually western Canadians have a tenuous relationship with central and eastern Canadians...lol.
    It was all over the news man... Media spoke about racist farmers(and dangers of farmers with firearms) quite extensively, while family went after RCMP for fueling racial divide(that statement sucked, I agree with victim's fam). Rabble said that Boushie was lynched. What the fuck?

    Macleans wrote about Boushie tragedy and what it says about racism. I think farmer was already charged with 2nd degree murder by that point. Nationalpost had plenty articles about this tragedy and racism. I loved NP's patience and research. Their coverage was non-bias and thought provoking.

    Racism and distrust between whites and native people clearly exist and we need to work on those issues, but damn media went hard from the start.

    Also, FSIN response to police statement was very interesting.

    "this tragedy will be investigated for what it is, a crime based on race,"

    A crime based on race?

    Jeez.
    Last edited by rocwell; Tue Feb 13th, 2018 at 12:25 PM.

  5. #8565
    Raptors Republic Icon rocwell's Avatar
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    Quote Joey wrote: View Post
    Solid post. I like this slaw better. haha Ya I was trying to figure out what legitimate cause they could serve, and it came down to "instincts" in my mind as well. But still, as you say, if it is something that is fairly open to abuse, I am not against at least exploring alternatives or improvements. And if it's the best we can do, then so be it; I'm not so sure it is, but I'm no legal expert.
    I'd love to see blind coir dire in our jury system. Attorneys would have to focus on information provided rather than interpersonal interactions.

  6. #8566
    Raptors Republic Veteran slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Joey wrote: View Post
    I bugs me when people describe JP as "far-right". He's really not at all. He's very much a Centrist, which is ultimately why he's so popular I would think; Both sides are able to see his points to some degree.

    Besides that I had to turn it off after the first minute ... these guys are so god damned annoying. Lol
    I was doing year end bonus stuff/reviews last week and I was hammering on one of Peterson's '12 rules': Compare yourself with who you were yesterday, not with who someone else is today. I used to get caught up in the keeping up with the Jones' mentality myself and this is a fairly useful piece of practical wisdom that everyone can use in their own career.

    Peterson's appeal isn't hard to understand: he's providing practical, useful ideas to people that have largely been lost because kids are protected from hard truths in a way they never were before. I was reading his book and I said to my wife that he sounds like my grandmother used to. Stand up straight young man! Don't lie to me! Don't hang out with those losers! Speak clearly! Why are you wasting your time with that nonsense!

    And on that last note, I need to get some work done....

  7. #8567
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Maybe it's time for them to go but maybe not. The rationale behind peremptory challenges is that some people who are in the jury pool will say and do all the right things but experienced trial counsel, especially good ones, often have very good instincts about jurors. They may not have cause to excuse someone but they may have a pretty good hunch someone would be bad for their client. Obviously, it's a tool that can be 'abused' but it's also an important tool for counsel - on both sides.
    Well said...the linked article further expands on your point. Both sides have points. Just looking at the selection numbers for the jury though ...the defendant gets 10 challenges for a 12 panel jury...but I believe only 5 indigenous looking individuals happened to be drawn lottery style from a drum. In this case the challenges allowed far exceeded the number who had "that look" and were consequently challenged/denied. I'd have to think that with a little tinkering of the process rules that some balance re representation of the community at large could be achieved....without it being a quota based process.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle37957170/
    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?” J.M. Keynes

  8. #8568
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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    It was all over the news man... Media spoke about racist farmers(and dangers of farmers with firearms) quite extensively, while family went after RCMP for fueling racial divide(that statement sucked, I agree with victim's fam). Rabble said that Boushie was lynched. What the fuck?

    Macleans wrote about Boushie tragedy and what it says about racism. I think farmer was already charged with 2nd degree murder by that point. Nationalpost had plenty articles about this tragedy and racism. I loved NP's patience and research. Their coverage was non-bias and thought provoking.

    Racism and distrust between whites and native people clearly exist and we need to work on those issues, but damn media went hard from the start.

    Also, FSIN response to police statement was very interesting.

    "this tragedy will be investigated for what it is, a crime based on race,"

    A crime based on race?

    Jeez.
    I took your MSM to mean major news outlets on any platform. Twitter and FaceBook etc. are out for me. I do not have accounts there and rarely quote them other than in an amusement context pretty much. It has become a disgusting polluted environment in those areas and of no educational value imo. Apologies.

    ps...you have to take the FSIN statement for what it is. They have a constituency they are the mouthpiece for.
    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?” J.M. Keynes

  9. #8569
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Nilanka's Avatar
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    Gotta love the soft bigotry of low expectations....



  10. #8570
    Raptors Republic Veteran Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Gotta love the soft bigotry of low expectations....


    If they are real they are disgusting, the second one also points to the Indians not being able to judge the white jurors because of their innate subconscious bias against anyone who isn't Indian.

    God these people are horrid racists.

  11. #8571
    Raptors Republic Veteran slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Gotta love the soft bigotry of low expectations....


    First of all, Jesus Christ. This identity politics stuff is officially insane. I feel like we are actually going backwards with everyone turning into puritans and scolds.

    Second. It's. A. Fucking. Comic Book. Movie. It will be fine cause the Marvel movies are all pretty much fine. No one will remember anything about this movie after a few weeks.

  12. #8572
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    First of all, Jesus Christ. This identity politics stuff is officially insane. I feel like we are actually going backwards with everyone turning into puritans and scolds.

    Second. It's. A. Fucking. Comic Book. Movie. It will be fine cause the Marvel movies are all pretty much fine. No one will remember anything about this movie after a few weeks.
    I just feel that this post is filled with a ton of hatred towards people of colour. How can slaw give an opinion on all marvel movies when this one is starring and mostly involving people of colour. I feel that his racist views are acceptable for movies like captain America but he is a white male and unable to consciously reflect on what a good movie is if it doesn't star white people.

    Get with the times slaw. Not being racist is racist now. Being racist is not racist. War is peace, and freedom is constraint

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    Raptors Republic Veteran slaw's Avatar
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    https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/patr...r&_gsc=889PFqJ

    Uh oh, this Patrick Brown stuff just keeps getting messier. In a story called "Patrick Brown accusers stand by story" we learn that the woman who claimed she was underage and in high school has now:

    She now says that she was of legal drinking age and out of high school. Brown was a Conservative member of Parliament at the time of the alleged incident.
    So, the most explosive part of the allegations (that he was after underage girls) is now admittedly untrue. That's a pretty significant change. Then there's this:

    In a further attempt to disprove the allegations, Brown claims one of the women had a personal relationship with a CTV reporter who worked on the story.

    CTV News took steps before publication and broadcast to ensure there was no previous contact with any of the journalists that would influence the reporting
    Note the careful parsing of words. So, we can now safely infer there was previous contact between the accuser(s) and CTV journos. Then this:

    The first accuser said Brown offered her a tour that ended in his upstairs bedroom.

    Brown claims the incident was "factually impossible" because, at the time, he was living in a one floor apartment.
    So, has CTV verified this? Should not be difficult. Yet, no confirming reporting in the story.

    And, still, CTV has not named the accusers. This thing is starting to stink.

  14. #8574
    Raptors Republic Veteran Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/patr...r&_gsc=889PFqJ

    Uh oh, this Patrick Brown stuff just keeps getting messier. In a story called "Patrick Brown accusers stand by story" we learn that the woman who claimed she was underage and in high school has now:



    So, the most explosive part of the allegations (that he was after underage girls) is now admittedly untrue. That's a pretty significant change. Then there's this:



    Note the careful parsing of words. So, we can now safely infer there was previous contact between the accuser(s) and CTV journos. Then this:



    So, has CTV verified this? Should not be difficult. Yet, no confirming reporting in the story.

    And, still, CTV has not named the accusers. This thing is starting to stink.
    So far the entire me too movement has been a farce. Fantastic political tool though

  15. #8575
    Raptors Republic Veteran slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    So far the entire me too movement has been a farce. Fantastic political tool though
    Oh, I wouldn't go that far. It definitely exposed some bad actors like Weinstein, etc. The problem now is that a mere accusation is career killing. I work with a lot of women. If one of them accused me I'd be done the same day and no one would touch me with a ten foot pole regardless of innocence. That's a problem.

    I don't like Patrick Brown but this specific case is starting to look like a hit job.

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    And, still, CTV has not named the accusers. This thing is starting to stink.
    Are they really obligated to? Would there not be a legal issue if the accusers do not want to be identified. News orgs. do not identify their sources and have to rely on some strict corroboration within their reporting to cya. In this case they have 2 sources and some contemporaneous evidence. Reading the entire link I am not sure PB is making a good case. He even owned a two storey home starting 2007 in the area...the accuser may be mistaken on the year (2006?). And his own party dumped him pretty quick so I am assuming there was some there-there....but no pics like the Porter thing down south.

    In anycase the PCs can do better that PB...he was branding himself as an erstwhile Lib with all the giveaways!!
    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?” J.M. Keynes

  17. #8577
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Oh, I wouldn't go that far. It definitely exposed some bad actors like Weinstein, etc. The problem now is that a mere accusation is career killing. I work with a lot of women. If one of them accused me I'd be done the same day and no one would touch me with a ten foot pole regardless of innocence. That's a problem.

    I don't like Patrick Brown but this specific case is starting to look like a hit job.
    If I recall the Weinstein accusation started It, and was about actual rape, with real women as the accusers, and not anonymous uncredited leakings.

    https://www.google.ca/amp/amp.timein...uct-allegation

    Has become a farce, or Salem level witch hunt might suit it better

  18. #8578
    Raptors Republic Veteran Miekenstien's Avatar
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    http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4534679

    And Indians will become more equal than any other people with their own legal system to ensure Indian rights.

  19. #8579
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4534679

    And Indians will become more equal than any other people with their own legal system to ensure Indian rights.
    I love how you keep saying and capitalizing "Indian" just to show how edgy you are. Lol

    Also a bit surprised you didn't try work in a joke about all of them getting $10M directly from Trudeau as well. Haha

    What part of the article are you specifically taking issue with? Sounds to me like they are just looking to ensure that Indigenous rights which already in place are not skirted, as has been the case on several occasions in the past. Is that a bad thing?
    Last edited by Joey; Wed Feb 14th, 2018 at 12:10 PM.

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    Quote Joey wrote: View Post
    I love how you keep saying and capitalizing "Indian" just to show how edgy you are. Lol

    Also a bit surprised you didn't try work in a joke about all of them getting $10M directly from Trudeau as well. Haha

    What part of the article are you specifically taking issue with? Sounds to me like they are just looking to ensure that Indigenous rights which already in place are not skirted, as has been the case on several occasions in the past. Is that a bad thing?
    Auto correct does that for Indian, not me. I think it believes in identity politics. If you want to take this to anal names then I refuse to call anyone not of one tribe out of Africa a first nations people.

    The idea that Indians don't get treated fairly, the idea that this government is using a case and ignoring almost every detail of that case, to progress and profligate some idiot fallacy that injustice has been committed.

    There is a charter of rights for all people in Canada. Indians don't need their own, unless we wrote one for every single group, that would t be such a bad thing right?

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