Everything Serge Ibaka

[DanH]

Did anyone listen to the Arse/Tim Chisolm RR podcast last week? In a big man rotation of Jonas, Ibaka, Monroe, OG and Siakam, Tim basically considers Ibaka to be 4th on this list (at best).

If you agree with Tim's take, not only should Ibaka be NOT starting, he should be relegated to garbage time.

I'm not sure if I'd go that far, but I definitely want to see OG starting at PF.

I don't think I disagree with that assessment on a talent level. I do think both Siakam and OG would rank above Ibaka for me.

But lineup choices don't necessarily come down to talent, fit matters too. Ibaka should start not because he's the best PF choice (and that is part of why he shouldn't close most nights), but because he can fill a role in that starting lineup that neither OG nor Siakam are ready for on a consistent basis yet (guarding bigger PFs for OG, spacing the floor for Siakam).

Part of why Scola was such a disaster was not just that he was dramatically worse than Patterson. Neither player was what you would call "starting quality" (though I do believe Patterson was a better player). The difference was really that Scola made NO sense starting next to JV, while Patterson made all the sense in the world, in terms of fit. Similar story with Siakam starting over Patterson - not only was he young and not ready to defend starting PFs (or even be a positive contributor in a defensive system just yet), but his complete lack of ability to shoot killed the offence (it was actually even more crucial then than now with DeMar's lack of spacing).

If Siakam establishes himself as a true threat from 3 point land, he could well take over that spot by the end of the year. If OG proves capable of handling bigger PFs, same with him (though I'd err on the side of caution and keep him protected for this year) - and he of course may see some starts at PF regardless, especially against teams with smaller frontcourts. But for now, I'd be defaulting to Ibaka until he proves he can't be effective in that role, because for all his struggles at various times last year, the starting lineup was still rock solid.

[Nilanka]

I don't think I disagree with that assessment on a talent level. I do think both Siakam and OG would rank above Ibaka for me.

But lineup choices don't necessarily come down to talent, fit matters too. Ibaka should start not because he's the best PF choice (and that is part of why he shouldn't close most nights), but because he can fill a role in that starting lineup that neither OG nor Siakam are ready for on a consistent basis yet (guarding bigger PFs for OG, spacing the floor for Siakam).

Part of why Scola was such a disaster was not just that he was dramatically worse than Patterson. Neither player was what you would call "starting quality" (though I do believe Patterson was a better player). The difference was really that Scola made NO sense starting next to JV, while Patterson made all the sense in the world, in terms of fit. Similar story with Siakam starting over Patterson - not only was he young and not ready to defend starting PFs (or even be a positive contributor in a defensive system just yet), but his complete lack of ability to shoot killed the offence (it was actually even more crucial then than now with DeMar's lack of spacing).

If Siakam establishes himself as a true threat from 3 point land, he could well take over that spot by the end of the year. If OG proves capable of handling bigger PFs, same with him (though I'd err on the side of caution and keep him protected for this year) - and he of course may see some starts at PF regardless, especially against teams with smaller frontcourts. But for now, I'd be defaulting to Ibaka until he proves he can't be effective in that role, because for all his struggles at various times last year, the starting lineup was still rock solid.

Wouldn't it make more sense to start OG on most nights, and reserve the Ibaka starts for the few times we face a "big PF" (e.g. Aldridge, Towns, Love, etc.)?

[DanH]

Wouldn't it make more sense to start OG on most nights, and reserve the Ibaka starts for the few times we face a "big PF" (e.g. Aldridge, Towns, Love, etc.)?

I think we're talking six of one and a half dozen of the other here. But even if we accept that most teams start small (I believe the majority tend to start big-ish PFs that Ibaka would be fine defending), there is also the question of getting run with different lineups. If we were to meet a big lineup in the playoffs where we want to start Ibaka at PF, I'd hope we have lots of reps of that. I'd be planning on getting lots of looks from the small lineups throughout most games, as they are super easy to find minutes for, and we'd probably close with them. So the best opportunity to get chemistry developed with the big lineup is to trot them out at the start of each half and shift smaller after a few minutes if need be.

[Puffer]

Did anyone listen to the Arse/Tim Chisolm RR podcast last week? In a big man rotation of Jonas, Ibaka, Monroe, OG and Siakam, Tim basically considers Ibaka to be 4th on this list (at best).

If you agree with Tim's take, not only should Ibaka be NOT starting, he should be relegated to garbage time.

I'm not sure if I'd go that far, but I definitely want to see OG starting at PF.

A lot of talk from Ibaka about how he rededicated himself in the off-season. Nurse talked to him early about how he could be used differently offensively and re-emphasized the importance of him providing rim protection. From what I have read Ibaka was onboard with all of it.

So a bit of a resurgence is definitely possible. I would think that his own personal pride should prevent a reoccurrence of his dreadful playoff performance.

[Hotshot]

[S.R.]

Loved it.

Delon = Delontino
Siakam = Spicy
OG = "You gotta talk now man, Kawhi is here. Your year was last year, now you gotta talk."

[MixxAOR]

Loved it.

Delon = Delontino
Siakam = Spicy
OG = "You gotta talk now man, Kawhi is here. Your year was last year, now you gotta talk."

Norm = Normatech

[inthepaint]

Norm = Normatech

[Nilanka]

I love how 2 years ago, it was "we need a bona fide PF like Ibaka to get us over the top!"

Now, the only reason to talk about Ibaka is because he cooks worms.

[LJ2]

So Ibaka as the main C is a thing now? Nurse is really trying hard to make this work. I thought for sure when JV started against the Wiz that it was going to be JV's game, but he only logged like 19 minutes. We got Charlotte, Minny and Dallas this week. Anyone think JV see's an uptick in mins?

[DanH]

So Ibaka as the main C is a thing now? Nurse is really trying hard to make this work. I thought for sure when JV started against the Wiz that it was going to be JV's game, but he only logged like 19 minutes. We got Charlotte, Minny and Dallas this week. Anyone think JV see's an uptick in mins?

No idea. Hard to predict what Nurse will try next. But it's not results-driven so far. He's just trying more Serge looks. Possibly because we know JV works great with the starters and we're not sure about the long term viability of Serge there yet. Possibly because he really likes the Serge look better and wants to give it every chance to succeed. Hard to know until we have a bigger sample.

But those three teams coming up are all candidates for playing bigger, so we'll see how much of this is matchups.

[LJ2]

On the plus side Serge seems to be responding better in the last two games and more importantly the rest of the team seems to be helping gang rebound better which will be important with Serge at C.

[golden]

No idea. Hard to predict what Nurse will try next. But it's not results-driven so far. He's just trying more Serge looks. Possibly because we know JV works great with the starters and we're not sure about the long term viability of Serge there yet. Possibly because he really likes the Serge look better and wants to give it every chance to succeed. Hard to know until we have a bigger sample.

But those three teams coming up are all candidates for playing bigger, so we'll see how much of this is matchups.

Serge is making $20M a year, so he's going to be afforded every possible opportunity to deliver value for that salary - either to the team, or as a trade chip. Unless he's a total disaster, Serge is going to play a LOT and he's responded well.

Powell would be in a similar situation except for the fact that he's also valuable to make Kawhi feel comfortable in Toronto. Norm is almost trade proof this year.

[GOLDBLUM]

Serge is making $20M a year, so he's going to be afforded every possible opportunity to deliver value for that salary - either to the team, or as a trade chip. Unless he's a total disaster, Serge is going to play a LOT and he's responded well.

Powell would be in a similar situation except for the fact that he's also valuable to make Kawhi feel comfortable in Toronto. Norm is almost trade proof this year.

I don’t know that I believe that Norm is trade proof. Who knows if he and Kawhi are that close. And any trade he’d be a part of would hopefully be as a consolidation with other assets to get a clear upgrade. I believe Kawhi could be ok with that if it meant winning.

Unfortunately, Norm hasn’t really done anything to increase his trade value so far. .... Serge on the other hand....

The funny thing in sports of wanting to trade guys when they don’t perform. Now that Serge’s performance and usage is showing signs of improvement, will they be as quick to wanna ship him out?

(For the right piece, I’m sure they would.)

[KeonClark]

I don’t know that I believe that Norm is trade proof. Who knows if he and Kawhi are that close. And any trade he’d be a part of would hopefully be as a consolidation with other assets to get a clear upgrade. I believe Kawhi could be ok with that if it meant winning.

Unfortunately, Norm hasn’t really done anything to increase his trade value so far. .... Serge on the other hand....

The funny thing in sports of wanting to trade guys when they don’t perform. Now that Serge’s performance and usage is showing signs of improvement, will they be as quick to wanna ship him out?

(For the right piece, I’m sure they would.)

I don't know why norm is playing tbh. Is it that hard to do a 9 man rotation, when some guys aren't getting enough minutes as it is?