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Vigilante justice I witnessed in India

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  • #16
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/...ar-cricket-bat

    i think this is the case that really first got me interested in the topic. i am pro gun etc. and i think up until the severe beating resulting in brain damage these guys were in the right chasing the perps and a couple swings to immobilize him and waiting for the police would have been fine. i think if the beating happened in the house a few more swings with the bat would have been fine as well, but immediate threat to his family was over.



    "Munir Hussain, 53, discovered three masked men in his house when his family returned from their local mosque during Ramadan in September last year.

    The burglars tied up and threatened to kill Hussain and his family but a teenage son managed to escape and alert Hussain's brother, Tokeer.

    The intruders fled when help arrived at the house in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, but the brothers chased and caught one, Walid Salem, a criminal with more than 50 previous convictions. He was then subjected to what Judge John Reddihough described as a "dreadful, violent attack" by the Hussain brothers.

    Salem was left with a permanent brain injury after he was struck with a cricket bat so hard that it broke into three pieces. The revenge attack was self-defence that went too far, Reading crown court was told."

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    • #17
      Miekenstien wrote: View Post
      https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/...ar-cricket-bat

      i think this is the case that really first got me interested in the topic. i am pro gun etc. and i think up until the severe beating resulting in brain damage these guys were in the right chasing the perps and a couple swings to immobilize him and waiting for the police would have been fine. i think if the beating happened in the house a few more swings with the bat would have been fine as well, but immediate threat to his family was over.



      "Munir Hussain, 53, discovered three masked men in his house when his family returned from their local mosque during Ramadan in September last year.

      The burglars tied up and threatened to kill Hussain and his family but a teenage son managed to escape and alert Hussain's brother, Tokeer.

      The intruders fled when help arrived at the house in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, but the brothers chased and caught one, Walid Salem, a criminal with more than 50 previous convictions. He was then subjected to what Judge John Reddihough described as a "dreadful, violent attack" by the Hussain brothers.

      Salem was left with a permanent brain injury after he was struck with a cricket bat so hard that it broke into three pieces. The revenge attack was self-defence that went too far, Reading crown court was told."
      I feel bad for these guys, but they should've known better. Everyone must know when you can use deadly or reasonable force and when you have to stop. I've had this talk with my parents when I was 14 yrs old. Jiu Jitsu association clubs also start preaching at a very young age. Not sure about others, but I remember coaches speaking to me about Canada's law and police attitude to self defenders.

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      • #18
        Revenge is not justice. The reality is that almost all people who commit serious or violent offences in Canada will eventually be released into the community again so the goal should always be rehabilitation. Revenge does nothing to help that. Rehabilitation isnt always realistic but it should be the goal. My university professor explained that many Countries come to Canada to learn about our justice system because we have one of the lowest reoffeding rates per population for developed countries. Canada's justice system is much further ahead and more effective than the U.S. because we have a higher focus on rehabilitation. I deal with serious offenders on a daily basis and i get paid twice as much in Canada as I would in the U.S. partly because my position has more responsibilities in Canada and we value rehabilitation more.

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        • #19
          Machine wrote: View Post
          Revenge is not justice. The reality is that almost all people who commit serious or violent offences in Canada will eventually be released into the community again so the goal should always be rehabilitation. Revenge does nothing to help that. Rehabilitation isnt always realistic but it should be the goal. My university professor explained that many Countries come to Canada to learn about our justice system because we have one of the lowest reoffeding rates per population for developed countries. Canada's justice system is much further ahead and more effective than the U.S. because we have a higher focus on rehabilitation. I deal with serious offenders on a daily basis and i get paid twice as much in Canada as I would in the U.S. partly because my position has more responsibilities in Canada and we value rehabilitation more.
          Not sure where I heard this, but I believe Norway has the best rehabilitation rates in the World. Is that right?

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          • #20
            rocwell wrote: View Post
            Not sure where I heard this, but I believe Norway has the best rehabilitation rates in the World. Is that right?
            Best Prison System in general in the entire world. Absolutely.
            Michael Moore did a short Documentary on it:

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            • #21
              Joey wrote: View Post
              Best Prison System in general in the entire world. Absolutely.
              Michael Moore did a short Documentary on it:
              Definitely. Canada's federal institutions have similar principles as well.

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              • #22
                Machine wrote: View Post
                Revenge is not justice. The reality is that almost all people who commit serious or violent offences in Canada will eventually be released into the community again so the goal should always be rehabilitation. Revenge does nothing to help that. Rehabilitation isnt always realistic but it should be the goal. My university professor explained that many Countries come to Canada to learn about our justice system because we have one of the lowest reoffeding rates per population for developed countries. Canada's justice system is much further ahead and more effective than the U.S. because we have a higher focus on rehabilitation. I deal with serious offenders on a daily basis and i get paid twice as much in Canada as I would in the U.S. partly because my position has more responsibilities in Canada and we value rehabilitation more.
                First Bold: Well said. Fully agree.

                Second Bold: I think the Private Prison system is a BIG reason behind this. This needs to be fully abolished before the US will ever even come close to fixing their broken system.

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                • #23
                  Joey wrote: View Post
                  First Bold: Well said. Fully agree.

                  Second Bold: I think the Private Prison system is a BIG reason behind this. This needs to be fully abolished before the US will ever even come close to fixing their broken system.
                  Yeah totally agree

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                  • #24
                    .

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                    • #25
                      Ugh

                      A man is charged with attempted murder and a raft of firearms offences after helping fend off home invaders, one of whom he’s now charged with shooting.

                      Kyle Earl Munroe was arrested on July 12 after RCMP and Halifax Regional Police responded to a report of a home invasion involving firearms at a home in Porters Lake.

                      Police said that three men entered the residence with guns and a struggle took place with two men inside.

                      The two in the home seized a firearm from one of the suspects and several shots were fired as the suspects fled. Police later located one of the suspects, who had non-life-threatening gunshot wounds.

                      Munroe faces charges of attempted murder, intent to discharge a firearm, intent to discharge a firearm when being reckless, careless use of a firearm, improper storage of a firearm, pointing a firearm, possession of a weapon for a dangerous purpose, unauthorized possession of a firearm, possession of a firearm knowing that possession is unauthorized, and possession for the purpose of trafficking.

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                      • #26
                        rocwell wrote: View Post
                        Ugh
                        he will get off. as long as it was the attackers weapons used. if they were his weapons and he didn't have the permits to own/use them he could be in trouble. if they were the invaders weapons and he is convicted this is a travesty.

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                        • #27
                          Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                          he will get off. as long as it was the attackers weapons used. if they were his weapons and he didn't have the permits to own/use them he could be in trouble. if they were the invaders weapons and he is convicted this is a travesty.
                          Yeah, I can't imagine any jury convicting someone for that. Unless his lawyer is braindead, this one should be open and shut.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • #28
                            Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                            he will get off. as long as it was the attackers weapons used. if they were his weapons and he didn't have the permits to own/use them he could be in trouble. if they were the invaders weapons and he is convicted this is a travesty.
                            He will get off cuz jury will never convict him. Police won't just dismiss charges tho. He'll go through full process. Stress, expenses of good lawyer. unfair.

                            If all three home invaders had guns and scumbag was shot at the house, city better sack case prosecutor.
                            Last edited by rocwell; Fri Aug 4, 2017, 10:19 AM.

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                            • #29
                              https://ca.yahoo.com/news/murder-cha...190203055.html

                              I think this was the case we were discussing, and if not very similar. dropped charges, basically what we all expected.

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                              • #30
                                Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                                https://ca.yahoo.com/news/murder-cha...190203055.html

                                I think this was the case we were discussing, and if not very similar. dropped charges, basically what we all expected.
                                He should never have been charged with murder though. Invaders should've been charged with murder of their 'friend'!! It doesn't matter that he used illegal weapon. I wonder how would police officer react to violent invasion?

                                These days you can't even defend your own family or home. Criminals lives matter? Ffs.
                                Last edited by rocwell; Fri Oct 13, 2017, 08:44 AM.

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