Shaolin Fantastic wrote:
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What star will be available this season?
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DogeLover1234 wrote: View PostCurious, how would you compare a skilled center who is an average defender (rim protection, not great PnR, etc.) to a good defender, low skill rim runner type? Essentially someone like Kanter to someone like Gobert (not those players, just play type). Genuinely curious, cause for a while everyone wanted a DeAndre Jordan type and hated the skilled guys, but seems like they are making a comeback.Only one thing matters: We The Champs.
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MixxAOR wrote: View PostWhat kind of skills? Big man with post moves who suck at defense are kinda dying out. Skilled bigs who can dribble, pass and shoot always were in demand. Even if they suck at D.
1.) Superstars (Cousins, KAT)
2.) Elite athletic rim protectors who rebound well and play great D (Gobert, DeAndre, Drummond appears to be this but the on-off numbers don't agree with that).
3.) Highly skilled shooters/passers, don't necessarily have to be good defensively (Gasol, Jokic, etc)
The low post guys who play mediocre defense, rebound well and can finish efficiently like JV, Vuc, Monroe and Kanter, still have value but in more limited roles, typically off the bench on a good team.
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Yeah, so exactly. Poeltl is none of those things, which was my point. A subset of centres are being phased out, and regardless of their value on the court, are going to have very limited trade value.
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LJ2 wrote: View PostSo everyone finally agrees traditional C's like JV are too slow for today's game?
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Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View PostIt's not that he's too slow to play in today's game. He just needs to be deployed strategically. For us I think that means coming off the bench. He has uses. He finishes great around the basket, doesn't miss free throws very often, rebounds well on both ends. Problem is his defense is fucking terrible so he can't anchor a starting unit. And combined with that Ibaka can't defend well at the 4, especially since it takes his best attribute defensively (rim protection, shot blocking) away because almost all the 4s in the league nowadays are stretch 4s that pull him way out of the paint.
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LJ2 wrote: View PostThose are the same things I've been saying about him for years. Game is too fast paced with small ball for a lumbering, traditional C to play a huge role in. But man the negativity you'd hear back wasn't worth the debate.
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LJ2 wrote: View PostThose are the same things I've been saying about him for years. Game is too fast paced with small ball for a lumbering, traditional C to play a huge role in. But man the negativity you'd hear back wasn't worth the debate.
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I see Ibaka getting a couple of blocks a game (haven't actually looked at his stats) and that's about it. Where is this rim protection you speak of? His D has been more or less non existent to my eyes. Certainly his rebounding is MIA. He gives up second chances. How is that rim protection?
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LJ2 wrote: View PostThose are the same things I've been saying about him for years. Game is too fast paced with small ball for a lumbering, traditional C to play a huge role in. But man the negativity you'd hear back wasn't worth the debate.
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LJ2 wrote: View PostThose are the same things I've been saying about him for years. Game is too fast paced with small ball for a lumbering, traditional C to play a huge role in. But man the negativity you'd hear back wasn't worth the debate.
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Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View PostYeah I've been trying to make that argument since I got here but it's been largely rebuffed and people just call me a JV hater. The tune seems to be changing though slowly.
Some of us saw this coming a long time ago. Same experience. You're right though, people are slowly starting to recognize it and the mob has dwindled.
You can still love JV and realize that his style/fit can be better off the bench.
The Milwaukee series is the eye opener and will be the blueprint moving forward as the trend continues. When our backs were against the wall, JV was moved to the bench and we took that series handily. That was against Thon Maker.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Puffer wrote: View PostI see Ibaka getting a couple of blocks a game (haven't actually looked at his stats) and that's about it. Where is this rim protection you speak of? His D has been more or less non existent to my eyes. Certainly his rebounding is MIA. He gives up second chances. How is that rim protection?
Meanwhile, I'm not sure I buy that he's a better rim protector at C than at PF. This year with all of JV, BeBe and Poeltl off the floor, Ibaka averages 2.1 blocks per 36. He averages 1.9 per 36 when beside JV. Shocking drop off.
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