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Who is the Most Overrated Team in the East ..aka.. Why Boston Sux.

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  • Look, Clippers management gave Blake Griffin a fake jersey retirement ("Clipper for life!") in their pitch to re-sign him then traded him half a season later. What a joke. When the team does it, "that's business" but if a player pulls the strings he's a disloyal heel. I don't fully buy that.

    The last few years have been weird, mostly the cap variations and the way good teams have gotten really smart with the cap (and hell, the cap itself) have all changed. Everything is different.

    Way back when the league wasn't diluted and great teams like the Celtics won multiple championships with multiple HoF'ers in their prime, this type of thing was a non-issue. It's like wondering why a 3,000 year old Bible doesn't talk about evolution.

    Jordan never had to leave, the Bulls were great and he was great and they won. But Pippen left. Barkley pushed his way out of Philly to join a better team and future HoFers. Some of this isn't new.

    Lebron self-managing his career is at a new level, but arguably GM Lebron has been Player Lebron's greatest enemy.

    The Warriors are just unique. Brilliant roster management and well timed cap spikes. I don't know if anybody has ever had the opportunity to do what Durant did. How sure are we that none of the old farts would have done this if they could have? I'm not sure at all. These guys want rings. Plenty of guys were more than happy to join the Lakers and win big. Kareem never stayed in Wisconsin.

    The sense of the NBA brotherhood is at a new level. These guys finally realized they're all on the same team and the real enemy is the guy with the chequebook who profits off you, your knees, your back, your ankles - and every dollar he successfully negotiates you down is a dollar that goes straight out of your pocket and into his. Old athletes whose bodies are destroyed at 50 and who never did make that much money - those owners who underpaid them and smoked cigars watching those guys wreck their knees wearing Chuck Taylors on hardwood, those owners always were and still are loaded, but the players never were. Professional athletes finally realized the real "us vs them" of their careers isn't about the guys in the other jerseys, it's about the guys in the suits. Pro sports have been trending in that direction for decades.

    End rant.
    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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    • Mack North wrote: View Post
      It's funny how Jordan is "6 for 6"... yet how many times did he lose in the first round? Oh, that number is 3. How many times has Bron lost in the first round? Undefeated. Stop with that nonsense, please.
      In his first playoff outing he lost to a 60 win Bucks team by single digits every game as the 7th seed. Next 2 seasons he loses in the first round to Larry Bird's Celtics who had FIVE HOFers on their roster and even those two series' had a whole bunch of single digit games. Only reason those games were close to begin with was because 2nd/3rd year Jordan was putting up 40 a night vs one of the greatest teams of all time.

      There's a reason no one uses those 'first round exits' to detract from Jordan's legacy. The Eastern Conference was just so much stronger back then.

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      • Anyone comparing KD's move to LeBron's doesn't know what they're talking about. He joined the best team in the league after a record setting season, in which they knocked his team out of the playoffs. The comparable would be if Shaq joined the 72 win Bulls in 1996 instead of LA, or if LBJ joined the Celtics in 2010 instead of the Heat (even those aren't as bad because those teams had aging stars; Curry, Klay and Draymond are all like at the start/middle of their primes).

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        • tDotted wrote: View Post
          In his first playoff outing he lost to a 60 win Bucks team by single digits every game as the 7th seed. Next 2 seasons he loses in the first round to Larry Bird's Celtics who had FIVE HOFers on their roster and even those two series' had a whole bunch of single digit games. Only reason those games were close to begin with was because 2nd/3rd year Jordan was putting up 40 a night vs one of the greatest teams of all time.

          There's a reason no one uses those 'first round exits' to detract from Jordan's legacy. The Eastern Conference was just so much stronger back then.
          The East was pretty fucking strong at the top when LeBron had his first few playoff appearances. You had the Big 4 Pistons team that won the title in 2004 and went to 5 or 6 straight ECF, you had Wade and Shaq on the Heat, then later on you had Orlando who were nearly ranked 1st in offense and defense when they went to the finals, as well as the Celtics Big 3 which eventually became a big 4 as well as the D-Rose Bulls teams in the early 2010s. Let's not fucking lie and pretend like the east was some cakewalk to get to the finals from 2004-2011 or so.

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          • golden wrote: View Post
            KG and Ray Allen came to the Celtics via trade and according to initial reports, KG wasn't exactly thrilled about going there in the first place. Lebron and Durant chose freely.
            Revisionist history. KG didn't approve the trade UNTIL he learned Ray Allen was going there as well. So he actually went BECAUSE he was forming a super team.

            If LeBron got a Pippen on the Cavs a few years into his career, he wouldn't have needed to leave. The best sidekick he had in that first stint in CLE was either Larry Hughes or Mo Williams

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            • S.R. wrote: View Post
              Look, Clippers management gave Blake Griffin a fake jersey retirement ("Clipper for life!") in their pitch to re-sign him then traded him half a season later. What a joke. When the team does it, "that's business" but if a player pulls the strings he's a disloyal heel. I don't fully buy that.
              Everyone praises Danny Ainge for trading away someone who had become a folk hero in Boston in Isaiah Thomas to give his team a better chance to win the title, because that's ultimately what it's all about.

              Yet with players, they aren't allowed to do that. They're expected to win rings for their team to be considered great, but if their supporting cast sucks they also aren't allowed to leave and look for a way to increase their chances of winning. They're just expected to lift their crappy team to the title by sheer will, as if one player is enough to win a championship. That's simply never ever been the case.

              Loyalty to teams is "important" for player's legacies, yet the teams have exactly zero expectation to be loyal to their players.
              That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

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              • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                Revisionist history. KG didn't approve the trade UNTIL he learned Ray Allen was going there as well. So he actually went BECAUSE he was forming a super team.

                If LeBron got a Pippen on the Cavs a few years into his career, he wouldn't have needed to leave. The best sidekick he had in that first stint in CLE was either Larry Hughes or Mo Williams
                Yep. That Boston team was the first team where the new player-driven league was really seen to be taking over. Miami was just the logical eventuality (and literal direct reaction to Boston making Wade, Bosh and LeBron's teams second class citizens in the East), players doing it through free agency rather than trade demands, and has just been part of the pattern.

                It's not the players' fault. The league is set up so that if teams aren't cheap, they can do this crap, and do it through every mechanism. OKC could have had a superteam entirely through the draft, but they cheaped out. Boston did it through trade, Miami did it through free agency. If you count LeBron's Kyrie-Love championship team, that's using all three avenues. The problem is that teams can put these teams together at all, and until the league fixes it's maximum salary rules, it's hard to blame LeBron for the pattern we are seeing.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • I still feel like the best solution would be to keep the cap (or maybe even move to a hard cap) and get rid of max salaries.

                  You want KD? Fine, get in a bidding war and pay him 70M a year to play. Then you don't have room for any other good players. Guys are willing to take paycuts but I don't think they'd be willing to throw away potentially 100s of millions to form a super-team.

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                  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                    I still feel like the best solution would be to keep the cap (or maybe even move to a hard cap) and get rid of max salaries.

                    You want KD? Fine, get in a bidding war and pay him 70M a year to play. Then you don't have room for any other good players. Guys are willing to take paycuts but I don't think they'd be willing to throw away potentially 100s of millions to form a super-team.
                    Yep. Been pitching this since the 2011 negotiations. Max player salaries make no sense in a league where a player can have the impact of a LeBron James.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                      Revisionist history. KG didn't approve the trade UNTIL he learned Ray Allen was going there as well. So he actually went BECAUSE he was forming a super team.

                      If LeBron got a Pippen on the Cavs a few years into his career, he wouldn't have needed to leave. The best sidekick he had in that first stint in CLE was either Larry Hughes or Mo Williams
                      According to this article below, KG could have teamed up with Lebron, Kobe or Dirk so he actually chose wrong. Key points here were that the "Decision" where KG wanted to go was not totally in his control and that any team acquiring KG with even 1 superstar immediately becomes a superteam.

                      And speaking of history, the reports were that Lebron, Wade and Bosh hatched the Super Team plan well in advance, and possibly as far back as during their Team USA time together a year before. The scheming by Lebron was much worse than Durant, who wasn't even thinking about the Warriors until his legit FA period started. Lebron is a control-freak, which is pretty clear for all to see.

                      The draft passed, and in time so did rumors that Garnett was headed to the Lakers for Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum. To the Warriors in a three-way deal involving Jason Richardson. To Phoenix for Amare Stoudemire. There was a three-way deal that would’ve sent Amare to Atlanta and Shawn Marion to the Celtics. There was interest from the Cavs (with young LeBron), the Bulls (a year from landing Derrick Rose) and the Mavs (KG and Dirk!), but nothing worked.
                      https://www.boston.com/sports/boston...ontract-hurdle

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                      • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                        The East was pretty fucking strong at the top when LeBron had his first few playoff appearances. You had the Big 4 Pistons team that won the title in 2004 and went to 5 or 6 straight ECF, you had Wade and Shaq on the Heat, then later on you had Orlando who were nearly ranked 1st in offense and defense when they went to the finals, as well as the Celtics Big 3 which eventually became a big 4 as well as the D-Rose Bulls teams in the early 2010s. Let's not fucking lie and pretend like the east was some cakewalk to get to the finals from 2004-2011 or so.
                        How many of those teams did he face in the 1st round?

                        Anyway, the late 00s was pretty much the strongest time for the East in LeBron's career but quickly fell off by the time he formed his Big 3 in Miami and started his Finals appearance streak. The reality is that the teams he's had to face since don't stack up with the teams Jordan was dealing with on his Finals runs.

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                        • lmaoooo


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                            • Zainab wrote: View Post

                              Lowry and DeMar are all in on using the bench as much as possible.

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                              • Zainab wrote: View Post
                                lmaoooo


                                Funny. Remember all the stories after the Mavs won the championship in 2011? it was all Heat and LeBron. Smh.
                                Mamba Mentality

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