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View Poll Results: Most Overrated .. aka Why Boston Sucks.

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  • Wizards

    7 12.96%
  • Raptors

    3 5.56%
  • Philly

    7 12.96%
  • Chowderheads

    29 53.70%
  • Lebrons

    12 22.22%
  • Detroit

    2 3.70%
  • Charlotte

    1 1.85%
  • Heat

    1 1.85%
  • Bucks

    2 3.70%
  • Other *

    0 0%
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Thread: Who is the Most Overrated Team in the East ..aka.. Why Boston Sux.

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
    Ah...yes....your spot on..

    They weren't as good as the Raps last year with that starting unit and their bench is worse this year than last......so it is a mystery why some pick them ahead of a pretty much same Raps team that finished 3 or 4 wins better than the Wiz last year...

    What I'm on is the Wiz's strength is their starting 5 which is really good....and keeps them in the top 4 of the east...I have the Raps in the top 2...
    A lot of it for me, has to do with ceiling. For me both Washington and Milwaukee are teams that are trending up while we've plateaued, maybe a year ago. I think we're still a very competitive team, esp in the playoffs. But when I make predictions I'm usually looking at best-case scenario, and unfortunately for the Raptors the best case scenario in my opinion is Lowry, JV, DeRozan, Miles missing a combined 20+ games. We don't exactly have a team full of iron men.

    I've already mentioned that I think Milwaukee has a really high ceiling, and while we were better than Washington last year, they are on the upswing. Washington's starting lineup can hang with any Eastern Conference lineup except for the one with Lebron James on it. I think that the Wizards paid Porter based on what he's growing into (similar to the way we paid DeRozan in his previous contract). And yea, if Morris doesn't end up in jail...
    your pal,
    ebrian

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Veteran Demographic Shift's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    A lot of it for me, has to do with ceiling. For me both Washington and Milwaukee are teams that are trending up while we've plateaued, maybe a year ago. I think we're still a very competitive team, esp in the playoffs. But when I make predictions I'm usually looking at best-case scenario, and unfortunately for the Raptors the best case scenario in my opinion is Lowry, JV, DeRozan, Miles missing a combined 20+ games. We don't exactly have a team full of iron men.

    I've already mentioned that I think Milwaukee has a really high ceiling, and while we were better than Washington last year, they are on the upswing. Washington's starting lineup can hang with any Eastern Conference lineup except for the one with Lebron James on it. I think that the Wizards paid Porter based on what he's growing into (similar to the way we paid DeRozan in his previous contract). And yea, if Morris doesn't end up in jail...
    The Raps go deeper on the depth chart than the Whiz do and are in better position to absorb injury when guys get knicked up. The Whiz aren't. As for durability the Whizs second best player Beal has spent far more time on the IR than either of Lowry or DD. It's what keeps Grunfeld awake at night. No depth. As we saw in last year's playoffs when Gianna's just ran out of gas as he was playing 45 mins a game so to will the Whiz in the playoffs. You can't run the big horses all game long. Until they find some competent depth don't share your view that Washington sits ahead of the Raps or is a team with a higher ceiling. They are what they are.

    I think Milwaukee takes a step forward only when Malcom Brogdon who looks like he can become a George Hill type PG arrives. Not sure if it's this year or next for that. FWIW..Parker doesn't help that team. He needs the ball and when he has it..the alphabet doesn't. You don't get better when you decrease the time your best player has with the ball.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Veteran planetmars's Avatar
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    Wiz could have a hit or miss season. Year before last they missed the playoffs. Although they were at .500 and this year I suspect teams with 41 wins will get into the playoffs. If Morris gets in trouble from the law they'll be a mess.

  4. #44
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    I know there's a lot of question marks surrounding the Celtics, but ultimately they have Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, Al Horford, some solid role players, and some really intriguing young players.

    Philly on the other hand has some people saying they're going to be a .500 team. With what exactly? Two rookies, one of which who can't shoot, and a glass Joel Embiid? That's really all they have for exciting players. They'll be into the 30 win area this year maybe, but people get too excited about young teams and expect the jump too quickly. Some people thought the Timberwolves would win 50 games last year.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Starter Mapko's Avatar
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    Quote jacobdr4 wrote: View Post
    Love the post and I agree completely. I cant remember who said they bet money with a friend on the raptors making it further than Boston but I'm gonna see if I can sucker someone into making that deal as well.
    Please post that succers No.
    Heck I dont even gamble, but thats not even gambling. Easy money.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Starter Mapko's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Pretty sure most here view the Cavs as basically unbeatable (by the Raps, or anyone else in the East) unless LeBron gets hurt, so I can't see why you'd think everyone doubts the Cavs.
    Cavs were very good last year (esp for Eastern conference).
    They are much much stonger this year (largely thanks to Boston).

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    Quote Cody73 wrote: View Post
    The Cavs might no be unbeatable given how the players mesh, as they also have had a lot of turn-over. And well, Lebron can only do so much.
    And James's "so much" is so much more than pretty much anybody else.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Starter Mapko's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    That's an interesting take on Milwaukee. Where do you have them finishing this year?
    IMO fighting with Washington for 3rd spot (after Cavs & Raps at 1,2).

  9. #49
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I love that you disagreed with his point so much you made a multimedia presentation to insult his name
    To my delight, that gif crossing out Brian and writing Dumb was already waiting to be found out there on the world-wide-web, simply by googling Brian. ... I thought I did well though to add the large E.

    And well, you can't go wrong with a Brian the dog gif.

  10. #50
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
    The Raps go deeper on the depth chart than the Whiz do and are in better position to absorb injury when guys get knicked up. The Whiz aren't. As for durability the Whizs second best player Beal has spent far more time on the IR than either of Lowry or DD. It's what keeps Grunfeld awake at night. No depth. As we saw in last year's playoffs when Gianna's just ran out of gas as he was playing 45 mins a game so to will the Whiz in the playoffs. You can't run the big horses all game long. Until they find some competent depth don't share your view that Washington sits ahead of the Raps or is a team with a higher ceiling. They are what they are.

    I think Milwaukee takes a step forward only when Malcom Brogdon who looks like he can become a George Hill type PG arrives. Not sure if it's this year or next for that. FWIW..Parker doesn't help that team. He needs the ball and when he has it..the alphabet doesn't. You don't get better when you decrease the time your best player has with the ball.
    A lot of what you say I agree with, but again it goes to playoff season where those things make a real impact and I did say that I thought Raptors match up well against both the Wizards and Bucks if we had to face them in the playoffs.

    I don't see the competence in depth that you're seeing. Who is our backup SG? If it's Powell, then who is our backup SF? Caboclo? Anunoby? McDaniels? Who is our backup PF? Nogueira? Siakam? I mean, I pretty much just listed 5 guys that I hope will never see the floor, let alone start for us if we had an injury.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Veteran Demographic Shift's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    A lot of what you say I agree with, but again it goes to playoff season where those things make a real impact and I did say that I thought Raptors match up well against both the Wizards and Bucks if we had to face them in the playoffs.

    I don't see the competence in depth that you're seeing. Who is our backup SG? If it's Powell, then who is our backup SF? Caboclo? Anunoby? McDaniels? Who is our backup PF? Nogueira? Siakam? I mean, I pretty much just listed 5 guys that I hope will never see the floor, let alone start for us if we had an injury.
    What are the concerns you have around depth of the Raptors? Most teams play 9, possibly 10 deep.
    Raps go Lowry, Demar, Valanciunas, Ibalka, Powell, Miles, Wright, Poeltl, Siakam as their 9...

    Can you expand on where you see the weaknesses in depth are ...and why ?

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
    What are the concerns you have around depth of the Raptors? Most teams play 9, possibly 10 deep.
    Raps go Lowry, Demar, Valanciunas, Ibalka, Powell, Miles, Wright, Poeltl, Siakam as their 9...

    Can you expand on what you see the weaknesses in depth are and why ?
    You mentioned that Beal's injury woes keep Grunfeld up at night. So my question is, who starts at SF if Miles goes down, and if it's Powell, who backs up DeRozan? What is the Raptors record with Delon Wright as the starting point guard? There's a very strong reason why there is a tiny sample size for this scenario.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  13. #53
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    You mentioned that Beal's injury woes keep Grunfeld up at night. So my question is, who starts at SF if Miles goes down, and if it's Powell, who backs up DeRozan? What is the Raptors record with Delon Wright as the starting point guard? There's a very strong reason why there is a tiny sample size for this scenario.
    No Brian ...I said that the lack of depth on the Wizards is what keeps the GM in Washington awake at night.

    Not sure how or why you think Deleon Wrights win loss record affects the Raptors depth or lack thereof.

    Raps have a group of wings..DD, Miles, Powell...there is a group of ballhandlers..Kyle, Wright and in a pinch Freddy VV...and a group of bigs in JV, Ibalka, Poeltl and Siakam that will be used in various situations and combinations. It's not a linear "this guy for that guy" soccer type substitution that if you commit Powell to back up Miles your suddenly bereft of options for another wing. You could go with one wing and two ballhandlers and two bigs. There are many permutations for those 9 or 10 guys.

    I don't think anyone here has intimated or is of the mind that the 11 through 15 guys such as Bruno Cabocolo or BeBe Noguera or KJ McDaniels or the rookie OG Anunoby are being counted on as crucial to the Raps fortunes this year.

    And my question to you still stands......who of the 6 through 9 players on the Raps depth chart to your view is suspect and why you think that ?

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
    And my question to you still stands......who of the 6 through 9 players on the Raps depth chart to your view is suspect and why you think that ?
    Can you spell out for me who those guys are?
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Demographic Shift's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Can you spell out for me who those guys are?
    One might almost jump to the conclusion your playing silly bugger here...

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
    One might almost jump to the conclusion your playing silly bugger here...
    Your inability to answer the question is indicative of the same conundrums I've been dealing with in regards to our depth.

    That's why I'm worried about this Raptors squad. You had a lot of names in your group of wings, ball-handlers, and bigs, but when you boil it down, like me, who falls in the #6-9 spots for minute distribution? It's a little a scary to look at.

    Last year, after the top 5 (I added one since Ross was traded mid-season) in minutes played, our #6-10 were:
    #6: PJ Tucker (gone)
    #7: Cory Joseph (gone)
    #8: Patrick Patterson (gone)
    #9: Terrence Ross (gone)
    #10: Lucas Nogueira (terrible)

    If we are to take the above as an example, maybe you can help me fill in the blanks for this season. The top minutes after starters were at SF, PG, PF:
    #6: Powell -- Norm is only player on our bench that I have any sort of confidence in
    #7: Wright -- Cojo averaged 25 mpg last year and started 22 games. Is Delon ready for this?
    #8: Sorry, if Siakam or McKinnie is getting the 8th most minutes on this team, we are f***ed
    #9: Bruno? Anunoby?
    #10: Poeltl
    your pal,
    ebrian

  17. #57
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Your inability to answer the question is indicative of the same conundrums I've been dealing with in regards to our depth.

    That's why I'm worried about this Raptors squad. You had a lot of names in your group of wings, ball-handlers, and bigs, but when you boil it down, like me, who falls in the #6-9 spots for minute distribution? It's a little a scary to look at.

    Last year, after the top 5 (I added one since Ross was traded mid-season) in minutes played, our #6-10 were:
    #6: PJ Tucker (gone)
    #7: Cory Joseph (gone)
    #8: Patrick Patterson (gone)
    #9: Terrence Ross (gone)
    #10: Lucas Nogueira (terrible)

    If we are to take the above as an example, maybe you can help me fill in the blanks for this season. The top minutes after starters were at SF, PG, PF:
    #6: Powell -- Norm is only player on our bench that I have any sort of confidence in
    #7: Wright -- Cojo averaged 25 mpg last year and started 22 games. Is Delon ready for this?
    #8: Sorry, if Siakam or McKinnie is getting the 8th most minutes on this team, we are f***ed
    #9: Bruno? Anunoby?
    #10: Poeltl
    Keep in mind, last year, Siakam started, and now we have Ibaka. Any downgrade from Pat to Siakam is outweighed by the upgrade from Siakam to Ibaka, and as you posit, it's a bigger minutes impact.

    Poeltl is an upgrade over BeBe. CoJo was awful last year so Wright should be able to replicate that at the very least. Whether he can replicate CoJo's more successful first season here is another question. Siakam is in the same spot in the rotation as he should have been last year. Powell and Miles on the wing is a definitive upgrade over Carroll and Ross, and probably at least on par with Carroll and Tucker.

    We do not have the depth of the team that entered the playoffs last year. That team was ridiculously deep, and was assembled in such a way that it would be impossible to keep together. But compared to this time last year, the team's depth looks to be about as good as it was last year, with better front line talent to boot.

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Keep in mind, last year, Siakam started, and now we have Ibaka. Any downgrade from Pat to Siakam is outweighed by the upgrade from Siakam to Ibaka, and as you posit, it's a bigger minutes impact.

    Poeltl is an upgrade over BeBe. CoJo was awful last year so Wright should be able to replicate that at the very least. Whether he can replicate CoJo's more successful first season here is another question. Siakam is in the same spot in the rotation as he should have been last year. Powell and Miles on the wing is a definitive upgrade over Carroll and Ross, and probably at least on par with Carroll and Tucker.

    We do not have the depth of the team that entered the playoffs last year. That team was ridiculously deep, and was assembled in such a way that it would be impossible to keep together. But compared to this time last year, the team's depth looks to be about as good as it was last year, with better front line talent to boot.
    You make a good point about the Siakam to Ibaka jump. But that was just the beginning of the year right? First couple months? Okay, I see what you're saying about the minutes breakdown which includes Siakam's first few months of starting so it skews it a bit. Perhaps not the most indicative of the regular season to come, let's look at the playoffs then, which ignores Siakam's starting gig and removes Ross from the picture:

    1. Lowry, 38 mins
    2. DeRozan, 37
    3. Ibaka, 31
    4. Powell, 25
    5. Tucker, 25 (gone)

    6. Valanciunas, 23
    7. Joseph, 21 (gone)
    8. Patterson, 19 (gone)
    9. Carroll, 16 (gone)
    10. Wright, 10
    11. Siakam, 5


    The above top 5 may be close to the coming regular season, with Miles/Powell occupying the #4 and #5 spots. But spots 7-9 are definitely a concern for me personally. Patterson wasn't great last year, but can Siakam really take those minutes? They were different types of players. I guess they are relying on Miles/Powell to stretch the floor.

    My biggest concern is Lowry's health, so if Wright ends up being as good as Joseph had been for us, that would dispel half the concerns I have.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mess's Avatar
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    No offense to CoJo, but I don't think anyone is going to miss him this year.
    Two beer away from being two beers away.

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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Your inability to answer the question is indicative of the same conundrums I've been dealing with in regards to our depth.

    That's why I'm worried about this Raptors squad. You had a lot of names in your group of wings, ball-handlers, and bigs, but when you boil it down, like me, who falls in the #6-9 spots for minute distribution? It's a little a scary to look at.

    Last year, after the top 5 (I added one since Ross was traded mid-season) in minutes played, our #6-10 were:
    #6: PJ Tucker (gone)
    #7: Cory Joseph (gone)
    #8: Patrick Patterson (gone)
    #9: Terrence Ross (gone)
    #10: Lucas Nogueira (terrible)

    If we are to take the above as an example, maybe you can help me fill in the blanks for this season. The top minutes after starters were at SF, PG, PF:
    #6: Powell -- Norm is only player on our bench that I have any sort of confidence in
    #7: Wright -- Cojo averaged 25 mpg last year and started 22 games. Is Delon ready for this?
    #8: Sorry, if Siakam or McKinnie is getting the 8th most minutes on this team, we are f***ed
    #9: Bruno? Anunoby?
    #10: Poeltl
    Its not almost anymore.. you are playing silly bugger.

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