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Who is the Most Overrated Team in the East ..aka.. Why Boston Sux.

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  • S.R. wrote: View Post
    Every MVP ladder/tracker I've seen has Harden, Giannis, and Lebron or Curry in the top 3. Highest I've seen Kyrie is 5th.
    NBA.com mvp ranker has him 2nd. Basketball ref tracker has horford ahead of him which seems fairer. NBA seems to buy into the hype too much.

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    • Right now I’d probably have OG in the conversation.

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      • enlightenment wrote: View Post
        Celtics are looking legit guys.... Overrated my ass, they will continue to get better as the 11 new players continue to adjust to eachother
        Least we mention get their All-Star, efficient, 3pt shooting SG back towards the end of the year...

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          Why would Kyrie even be in the MVP discussion? Boston is winning games and minutes without him just as much as with him, and his stats aren't particularly impressive - he's posting basically an identical season to his last season before LBJ arrived in CLE.

          BOS is definitely shockingly good so far. But it's not because of Kyrie being an MVP candidate (though credit to him for not torpedoing that defence).
          Umm... because it's a media voted award?

          Right now I could only see Harden winning it over him if the season ended today.

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          • DanH wrote: View Post
            Why would Kyrie even be in the MVP discussion? Boston is winning games and minutes without him just as much as with him, and his stats aren't particularly impressive - he's posting basically an identical season to his last season before LBJ arrived in CLE.

            BOS is definitely shockingly good so far. But it's not because of Kyrie being an MVP candidate (though credit to him for not torpedoing that defence).
            S.R. wrote: View Post
            Every MVP ladder/tracker I've seen has Harden, Giannis, and Lebron or Curry in the top 3. Highest I've seen Kyrie is 5th.
            Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
            Umm... because it's a media voted award?

            Right now I could only see Harden winning it over him if the season ended today.
            The media know they owe Harden after leaving him at the alter last year in favour of the penultimate ball hog in OKme. If he continues his current pace and the Rockets finish top 3 in the west..hard to see how he doesn’t receive alms from the voting press.
            There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
            - TGO

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            • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
              Umm... because it's a media voted award?

              Right now I could only see Harden winning it over him if the season ended today.
              Giannis?! 30.6ppg, 10rpg, 4.6apg, 1.9bpg and 1.2spg...

              While BOS as a team has been in the headlines, the Greek Freak has been far more in them as an individual player than Kyrie and for good reason.

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              • jacobdr4 wrote: View Post
                NBA.com mvp ranker has him 2nd. Basketball ref tracker has horford ahead of him which seems fairer. NBA seems to buy into the hype too much.
                Speaking of hype, one thing for sure is that Brad Stevens is the landslide COY. As over-hyped as he is, it's looking like Stevens is actually underrated this year, so far.

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                • golden wrote: View Post
                  Speaking of hype, one thing for sure is that Brad Stevens is the landslide COY. As over-hyped as he is, it's looking like Stevens is actually underrated this year, so far.
                  I don't understand, what makes Stevens overrated?!

                  He's been successful at every level, took a core of players nobody thought twice about before BOS (IT, Crowder, Bradley, Olynk) to #1st in the East and has managed to take almost a completely made over roster lose their 2nd best player and best for a couple of games, yet they're again #1 in the East and have the best defense in the league despite completely lacking rim protection and rebounding (which is a common argument on these boards to keep JV)....

                  He's only proving to be worthy of the hype if anything.

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                  • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                    I don't understand, what makes Stevens overrated?!

                    He's been successful at every level, took a core of players nobody thought twice about before BOS (IT, Crowder, Bradley, Olynk) to #1st in the East and has managed to take almost a completely made over roster lose their 2nd best player and best for a couple of games, yet they're again #1 in the East and have the best defense in the league despite completely lacking rim protection and rebounding (which is a common argument on these boards to keep JV)....

                    He's only proving to be worthy of the hype if anything.
                    This is kind of a hilarious statement, because part of the argument for keeping JV is also that his supposed lack of rim protection is overstated and far from the main reason for our defensive issues. People want to trade him because he's dragging down our D, apparently. Now this is not really to argue with you as I don't even really remember your position on all this, so this is mostly just a rant.

                    Boston has terrific perimeter D (and a generous whistle). As much as people think this supposed "new nba" is about perimeter O, it works the other way too. You need great perimeter D if you want to beat elite teams. And even in the "old nba", the team that can get more minutes of solid two-way lineups is often the one that wins, especially in the playoffs.

                    Whether you think JV is being underused or rightly used, he actually has a unique skill set on both ends that no one on our team fully replicates, and ironically enough especially on the defensive end. One we likely wouldn't be able to replace with our current guys, and lots of people want to trade him for a perimeter player so you might not be replacing it in the trade either. Poeltl is the only guy who has the physical potential if he gains some muscle, and so far he has not shown enough strides in how he handles the physical game, which may or may not have just to do with how strong he is.

                    I mean, if we were starting Ibaka at C all this time, one of the options brought up a lot, I don't see where our record would have been better.
                    -JV sat for 2 of our losses where Bebe started. Definitely could have helped against the Spurs. Even against GSW, if you wanted to bench him, he'd still be good to battle Pachulia for 15 minutes over our other guys.
                    -Denver everyone shit the bed and I don't see that changing.
                    -Washington he seems to always struggle against Gortat, but dude's a physical player and I don't know who could hold their own on our team. Maybe Poeltl could abuse Gortat enough of the offensive glass and bring enough D for a slight improvement there, but maybe Gortat just slaps around our bigs.
                    -Maybe Boston? That was a tough game and I think none of our bigs did very well...but a lot of that Boston does by design. With their disadvantage inside they want to keep the game from going that way, so they try to deny driving/passing lanes into the paint, have great perimeter defenders, and try to pull your bigs away from the basket on the other end.

                    And I can't really think of any wins where he wasn't a factor, sometimes a big one. He sat for a couple but I think we beat LA and Portland even if he plays. The Lakers suck and Portland played like hot - like, middle of the summer spilled onto the street - garbage that game. Philly he got injured but that's another garbage team with Embiid sitting. In all the other games he was pretty key, and often matching up against a solid big who anyone else on our team would struggle with, maybe in some cases enough to swing those to losses without him.

                    ---

                    This turned out to be a much longer post than I meant. However, as someone who obviously likes JV and thinks he could be better used, I still consider myself pretty objective. He is not a negative for this team, and trading him can't be for a role playing wing or some such. It would not be addition by subtraction, nor would some half-decent 3&D wing propel this team to new heights.

                    If you want to trade him, it better be for a trade that obviously raises the ceiling of this team whether it's for a big or small guy. And Cousins doesn't count because he's a manchild and a loser. It wouldn't be a super long list of players. Plus, JV's now modest salary with the new CBA makes it even harder to come up with possibly beneficial scenarios. The Danny Green and Wes Matthews of the league are not the answer.
                    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Nov 18, 2017, 11:15 PM.

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                    • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                      This is kind of a hilarious statement, because part of the argument for keeping JV is also that his supposed lack of rim protection is overstated and far from the main reason for our defensive issues. People want to trade him because he's dragging down our D, apparently. Now this is not really to argue with you as I don't even really remember your position on all this, so this is mostly just a rant.

                      Boston has terrific perimeter D (and a generous whistle). As much as people think this supposed "new nba" is about perimeter O, it works the other way too. You need great perimeter D if you want to beat elite teams. And even in the "old nba", the team that can get more minutes of solid two-way lineups is often the one that wins, especially in the playoffs.

                      Whether you think JV is being underused or rightly used, he actually has a unique skill set on both ends that no one on our team fully replicates, and ironically enough especially on the defensive end. One we likely wouldn't be able to replace with our current guys, and lots of people want to trade him for a perimeter player so you might not be replacing it in the trade either. Poeltl is the only guy who has the physical potential if he gains some muscle, and so far he has not shown enough strides in how he handles the physical game, which may or may not have just to do with how strong he is.

                      I mean, if we were starting Ibaka at C all this time, one of the options brought up a lot, I don't see where our record would have been better.
                      -JV sat for 2 of our losses where Bebe started. Definitely could have helped against the Spurs. Even against GSW, if you wanted to bench him, he'd still be good to battle Pachulia for 15 minutes over our other guys.
                      -Denver everyone shit the bed and I don't see that changing.
                      -Washington he seems to always struggle against Gortat, but dude's a physical player and I don't know who could hold their own on our team. Maybe Poeltl could abuse Gortat enough of the offensive glass and bring enough D for a slight improvement there, but maybe Gortat just slaps around our bigs.
                      -Maybe Boston? That was a tough game and I think none of our bigs did very well...but a lot of that Boston does by design. With their disadvantage inside they want to keep the game from going that way, so they try to deny driving/passing lanes into the paint, have great perimeter defenders, and try to pull your bigs away from the basket on the other end.

                      And I can't really think of any wins where he wasn't a factor, sometimes a big one. He sat for a couple but I think we beat LA and Portland even if he plays. The Lakers suck and Portland played like hot - like, middle of the summer spilled onto the street - garbage that game. Philly he got injured but that's another garbage team with Embiid sitting. In all the other games he was pretty key, and often matching up against a solid big who anyone else on our team would struggle with, maybe in some cases enough to swing those to losses without him.

                      ---

                      This turned out to be a much longer post than I meant. However, as someone who obviously likes JV and thinks he could be better used, I still consider myself pretty objective. He is not a negative for this team, and trading him can't be for a role playing wing or some such. It would not be addition by subtraction, nor would some half-decent 3&D wing propel this team to new heights.

                      If you want to trade him, it better be for a trade that obviously raises the ceiling of this team whether it's for a big or small guy. And Cousins doesn't count because he's a manchild and a loser. It wouldn't be a super long list of players. Plus, JV's now modest salary with the new CBA makes it even harder to come up with possibly beneficial scenarios. The Danny Green and Wes Matthews of the league are not the answer.
                      Cousins, one of probably the 5 most unstoppable players offensively in the league, doesn't count as someone who'd raise our ceiling because you don't like his attitude. Ok..

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                      • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                        Cousins, one of probably the 5 most unstoppable players offensively in the league, doesn't count as someone who'd raise our ceiling because you don't like his attitude. Ok..
                        Well he's never taken a team anywhere. No excuses if he's supposedly a top 5 "unstoppable offensive player". They can usually take even garbage teams to at least one or two playoff appearances in a 7-year span. And his attitude seems to thus be a legit problem.

                        Meanwhile, guy you want to trade away (plus extra assets of course) seems to have stopped him twice in a one-week span. Sure his lines look ok, but he was visibly hurting his team too often for a guy who's so unstoppable.
                        Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Nov 19, 2017, 12:59 AM.

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                        • Are we really having the JV vs Boogie debate again? JV is a role player and Boogie is a star. It's really that simple.

                          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                          @Chr1st1anL

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                          • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                            Are we really having the JV vs Boogie debate again? JV is a role player and Boogie is a star. It's really that simple.

                            Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                            JV is a role player and Boogie is an emotional little star.

                            Comment


                            • In other news, the Bucks aren't exactly all that. Not yet anyway.

                              Re: MVP, I really think the league should get back to rewarding the best player on the best team. Might be Durant's turn.

                              Comment


                              • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                                In other news, the Bucks aren't exactly all that. Not yet anyway.

                                Re: MVP, I really think the league should get back to rewarding the best player on the best team. Might be Durant's turn.
                                Yeah I'm really surprised the Bucks are struggling this bad.

                                From what I read from Bucks' fans on RealGM, it sounds like Jason Kidd does an awful job coaching, apparently the offense is too predictable (we remember the high PnR here for KL/DD lol) where it's basically let Giannis charge down a lane and pitch out and from what I gather their defensive scheme is complete balls too.

                                As for MVP discussion, sorry but no one from GSW can or should get it imo. Given all the talent around them (ie/ the 2 former MVPs - plural) and the system, I just can't give it to them. The game is too easy for them, too many unfair advantages over other players in the conversation. You always hear players say that other great players just make their lives easier, well Golden State is the EASIEST path in the NBA to success. Teams have to worry at every corner with the exception of Zaza lol.

                                You go to stop Curry before he pulls up from half court like it's a lay up, it means KD is open. You go to stop KD from pulling up while he runs into a 3, that means Curry is open and if you're so lucky to have stopped the first 2 MVP threats guess what?! There's still the guy who's had multiple 50+ (and even 60pt) games that's an absolute lights out shooter in Klay available...oh for the hell of it there's the DPOY Draymond Green who's great bball IQ knows when to run the open lanes or get to the open spot and nail a 3...or just make a great pass back to them....so yeaaaah HELL NO no GSW deserves a MVP.

                                Harden will likely get it but Giannis is putting up gaudy stats that if MIL can turn it around he'll be in the conversation, LeBron has had some big nights as well and we'll see if Kawhi returns soon how he does.

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