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  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
    But I mean that trade doesn't even make our bench weak.

    Lowry/Wright
    Butler/Miles
    Kawhi/OG
    Ibaka/Siakam
    JV/Monroe

    and Powell would STILL be 11th man lol.
    I can't see them waiting until January to make a trade.

    Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk

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    • Toronto could take on Dieng's contract.. but they would have to take back Powell or Ibaka.

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      • Machine wrote: View Post
        I can't see them waiting until January to make a trade.

        Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk
        Me neither. I also can't seem them doing that trade with us that was suggested. Was just commenting on what I would do in that situation.

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        • The fact that they want to dump Dieng makes the Clippers and Nets more attractive. Clippers can give them back useful players who have big but fair contracts like Lou Will/Bradley/etc, while the Nets have a ton of big expirings to use.

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          • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
            But I mean that trade doesn't even make our bench weak.

            Lowry/Wright
            Butler/Miles
            Kawhi/OG
            Ibaka/Siakam
            JV/Monroe

            and Powell would STILL be 11th man lol.
            I mean sure if we keep OG and Siakam and heavily protect the 1st

            Lightning strikes twice? I mean it is Masai soo
            9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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            • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
              I mean if the price was actually Danny Green, FVV and a protected 1st at the deadline, I pay that immediately. We have Wright to play backup PG and Butler basically just replaces Green at the 2. If you think about it that would basically be DeMar, FVV, Poeltl and 2 protected 1sts for Kawhi and Jimmy Butler.

              As long as the protection is good enough that we could still hypothetically tank in 2020, 2021, etc and keep our pick I'm down for that.
              Totally agree. At the beginning of last season, I was still questioning whether FVV should even be in the league - that's found money. Masai's biggest strength is finding late-round gems and even an un-drafted guy like FVV and building deep, talented benches. He has proven this repeatedly, even going back to Denver.

              If you have a chance to trade replacement-level bench guys for superstars, c'mon Zach... it's a no-brainer. Masai can replace those guys. And also, when you're ready to tank, you don't actually want to win, so in some ways a very good (but not great) player who contributes to wins like FVV kills your chances at a high pick. You need to be really, really bad.

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              • Fred would be a terrible tank commander. He'll try to hard and win a lot of unnecessary games for you.

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                • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                  The fact that they want to dump Dieng makes the Clippers and Nets more attractive. Clippers can give them back useful players who have big but fair contracts like Lou Will/Bradley/etc, while the Nets have a ton of big expirings to use.
                  I think that favours Toronto more actually.

                  Clippers and Nets would have to eat more salary and it could prevent them from taking on two max deals (I haven't done the math, but Dieng makes $16M next year and that's a lot of cap that he'd eat up). So they may prefer to just wait until free agency to sign him for "free".

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                  • planetmars wrote: View Post
                    Fred would be a terrible tank commander. He'll try to hard and win a lot of unnecessary games for you.
                    The best tank commander is like the anti-Fred PG. Bad defense, lots of mistakes, tries to do too much, etc.

                    Those guys lose you games, guys like Fred win you games.

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                    • To play devil's advocate though I see Lowe's point kind of.

                      Losing Fred fucks up our "shadow team". Like the FVV-OG-Siakam-JV quartet is set up pretty nicely to plop Giannis in there in 2020 and dominate for 5+ years after that.

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                      • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                        It's my opinion that butler may hurt our chances of keeping Kawhi rather than helping them

                        Meaning in other words, more likely we have neither guy, and less young assets in 2019 if we do it

                        And Lowry butler Kawhi and a weak bench still loses to the warriors in 5 maybe 6 in 2018
                        Agreed. This is exactly my argument, I want Butler but not in this very specific scenario.

                        Kawhi: yes, worth the risk. He's arguably the second-best player in the world when healthy.

                        Butler: no, Butler in my eyes is not even in the top-10. (LeBron, Durant, Kawhi, Steph, Davis, Harden, Westbrook, Giannis, CP3, Embiid/PG).

                        If the Raptors end up having to deal VanVleet, they lose out on the guy who was likely the most instrumental to that bench's success, and most important part to jump-starting the Raptors' success after rebuilding.

                        If Ibaka/Wright for Butler, sure. But, I'm not willing to give up young depth, assets that are necessary for the rebuild, then losing out on Butler/Kawhi in free agency.

                        Plus, Butler is the polar opposite of Kawhi, and that potential partnership off-the-court could be an issue. Not that Kawhi doesn't work hard or anything, but, I don't think Kawhi wants to get pressed like Butler would/will do with his teammates.
                        Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                        • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                          The best tank commander is like the anti-Fred PG. Bad defense, lots of mistakes, tries to do too much, etc.

                          Those guys lose you games, guys like Fred win you games.
                          Someone like Jerryd Bayless for example.

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                          • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                            The best tank commander is like the anti-Fred PG. Bad defense, lots of mistakes, tries to do too much, etc.

                            Those guys lose you games, guys like Fred win you games.
                            We could start Lorenzo Brown.

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                            • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                              I mean if the price was actually Danny Green, FVV and a protected 1st at the deadline, I pay that immediately. We have Wright to play backup PG and Butler basically just replaces Green at the 2. If you think about it that would basically be DeMar, FVV, Poeltl and 2 protected 1sts for Kawhi and Jimmy Butler.

                              As long as the protection is good enough that we could still hypothetically tank in 2020, 2021, etc and keep our pick I'm down for that.
                              On paper in a vacuum, yeah I'd do that in a heartbeat. The thing is Butler, as big a difference he could make , is looking a bit toxic/shady right now:
                              1. Asks to be traded right before training camp, providing massive distraction to his team, while also severing affecting their leverage by flat-out saying he is "determined" to go to the clippers at some point.
                              2. Does so under the smokescreen of "wanting to win now" and play with guys that "compete", then "chooses" LA/NY as his preference, even though these are not teams that can give him that now
                              3. Would probably try to drag Kawhi away with him, rather then improving our chances to re-sign him.
                              4. Now is 2-0 on locker rooms he created strife on (Bulls and T-wolves)

                              As good as he is, he's going to be 30 next year, shooting 34% from deep, looking for a big/max long extension afterwards, while bringing along some locker room baggage, and a huge flight risk, not just for himself, but for Kawhi. It's tempting, but looking at the big picture here, doesn't really pass the smell test to me.

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                              • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                                To play devil's advocate though I see Lowe's point kind of.

                                Losing Fred fucks up our "shadow team". Like the FVV-OG-Siakam-JV quartet is set up pretty nicely to plop Giannis in there in 2020 and dominate for 5+ years after that.
                                Why would Giannis come here without another superstar (or 3) already on the roster? We need Kawhi or Butler to stay here to attract a legit superstar through free agency.

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