Everything 2018 Off Season

[KeonClark]

Plus you have to leave Toronto for Detroit!

That actually could be worth it to Dwane, depending on his family situation maybe his kids want to continue going to the same school...he could pull off coaching in Detroit and living part time in Toronto awhile longer.

Again no idea on his family preference but I'm pretty sure both his kids are middle school-ish

[Axel]

I'm pretty sure a coach can utilize more than one system. I can't believe the reason he would never leave college is cause he couldn't employ a full court press in the NBA. The idea that everyone is locked into the status quo is simply untrue.

True but it’s been largely been the basis of his success, so as a GM in the NBA, wouldn’t you want to see him change his model and demonstrate success before you would hire him?

And if you’re Shaka, you have a successful college system - how much do you deviate from it to show other leagues rather than focus on winning in the one you’re in?

Unless Shaka really wants to be a NBA coach, and decides to alter his entire system to pursue that, which he hasn’t to date, then it doesn’t seem likely.

[MixxAOR]

Noone is giving Top 3 pick or All-Star player for Derozan. Let's be real.

[DanH]

Noone is giving Top 3 pick or All-Star player for Derozan. Let's be real.

Which is why a top 4 or 5 pick is a good return for him. As is a recent top 3 pick who has disappointed that our development team may be able to help reach their potential.

That said, this is all speculation (as is your statement - in a league with Sacramento and New York, who knows what could happen?).

[slaw]

True but it’s been largely been the basis of his success, so as a GM in the NBA, wouldn’t you want to see him change his model and demonstrate success before you would hire him?

And if you’re Shaka, you have a successful college system - how much do you deviate from it to show other leagues rather than focus on winning in the one you’re in?

Unless Shaka really wants to be a NBA coach, and decides to alter his entire system to pursue that, which he hasn’t to date, then it doesn’t seem likely.

Not necessarily. If I thought he was a good leader and manager that would be far more important.

I wouldn't.

I don't know of any college coach who would alter a successful approach as an audition for NBA jobs. In fact, you could argue anyone doing so is showing such bad judgment they disqualify themselves.

[Mapko]

curry really has the worst kicks in the game

Look worse than old “Pacer” from 70s and I thought thats hard to top.

[Mapko]

Which is why a top 4 or 5 pick is a good return for him. As is a recent top 3 pick who has disappointed that our development team may be able to help reach their potential.

That said, this is all speculation (as is your statement - in a league with Sacramento and New York, who knows what could happen?).

With DD selection to all NBA 2nd team: Does that change your opinion?
Even if we get a top 3 pick-what are the odds we get a player like Tatum as opposed to................(fill in blanks)?
Personally I highly doubt Masai trades him.
I am not even sure why we would? Poor D? OK, I agree, but Houston has managed to go pretty far with as poor a deffender as you can get (Harden).
Maybe the solution is to get a rid of Ibaka? He alone may or may not get you much but combined with anoth player?

[KeonClark]

With DD selection to all NBA 2nd team: Does that change your opinion?
Even if we get a top 3 pick-what are the odds we get a player like Tatum as opposed to................(fill in blanks)?
Personally I highly doubt Masai trades him.
I am not even sure why we would? Poor D? OK, I agree, but Houston has managed to go pretty far with as poor a deffender as you can get (Harden).
Maybe the solution is to get a rid of Ibaka? He alone may or may not get you much but combined with anoth player?

Agreed. It's much more enticing to try and figure this out. We'll have a new coach, hopefully a couple significant roster moves..to get this close and just give up and sell for highly questionable college players(anything after pick #2) is depressing

[Rudy Bargnani]

With DD selection to all NBA 2nd team: Does that change your opinion?
Even if we get a top 3 pick-what are the odds we get a player like Tatum as opposed to................(fill in blanks)?
Personally I highly doubt Masai trades him.
I am not even sure why we would? Poor D? OK, I agree, but Houston has managed to go pretty far with as poor a deffender as you can get (Harden).
Maybe the solution is to get a rid of Ibaka? He alone may or may not get you much but combined with anoth player?

Harden is a better defender than Derozan.

If anything the allnba nod increases Derozan’s trade value. It’s a good thing.

[Hotshot]

I don't know how Masai will be able to deliever any positive press conferences in the near future unless he starts to disassemble some big pieces from the core. Just looking at how Indiana & Boston have won 3 games each in the playoffs against the Cavs while Toronto managed none is baffling for a team that is in all intents and purposes better then them. As much as Casey took some of the blame and got fired, the players we have need to also take part of the blame and be shipped out of town. There were 2 games where Toronto at the very least should have won but due to bone headed errors and missed shots due to lack of mental/testicular fortitude we did not. A new coach isn't gonna change much unless we start to look for opportunities to find players who don't easily buckle under the pressure and fall apart come playoffs time.

[MixxAOR]

I don't know how Masai will be able to deliever any positive press conferences in the near future unless he starts to disassemble some big pieces from the core. Just looking at how Indiana & Boston have won 3 games each in the playoffs against the Cavs while Toronto managed none is baffling for a team that is in all intents and purposes better then them. As much as Casey took some of the blame and got fired, the players we have need to also take part of the blame and be shipped out of town. There were 2 games where Toronto at the very least should have won but due to bone headed errors and missed shots due to lack of mental/testicular fortitude we did not. A new coach isn't gonna change much unless we start to look for opportunities to find players who don't easily buckle under the pressure and fall apart come playoffs time.

we will not be better next year. this was our window and they couldn't taken advantage of it. Time to move on. Raps are starting a slow disassemble of this team and we'll go into rebuild in 2 years. Years of being "competitive" are kinda gone

[Mitch P]

This is well said. These conversations often become over simplified where if you're not willing to get on board with the half-baked and lopsided trade idea of the day, then you're happy with the status quo and enjoy mediocrity. I think the reality is that the trades that will be available for guys like DD, Lowry et al this summer are going to be for other high-priced players that have seemingly run their course with whatever team they're on now, or so-so draft capital and young prospects. Masai should 100% be busy this summer exploring whatever trade avenues he can, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see a very similar team return from last year. And it's not because he's afraid to rock the boat, or MLSE is handcuffing him to protect playoff revenue or whatever other narrative we've crafted in the walls of this forum over the last few weeks. It's because 95% of the deals we banter about on here never are actually on the table, and the options he does have won't likely a) improve our odds to breakthrough in the short term or b) considerably expand our ceiling in the long term.

If you can move DeRozan for a top four pick in the draft and something else, let's do it. If you can move Lowry for the number one pick from last year, Covington and other pieces, let's do it. I just find it hard to believe that teams are going to be lining up to give away big parts of their futures to us in exchange for guys we seem desperate to move after bricking out with us in the playoffs the last five years.

It's the overall disconnect in logic in these threads - "We're a fatally flawed team with guys who can't cut it when it counts and a tear down is completely necessary and oh by the way here's my list of three trades where we move those aforementioned players for assets A, B and C and build a powerhouse again in three seasons." It's never as simple as we make it out to be.

I would think other teams might not look at our players as being individually responsible for playoff failures. They would look at how Lowry, Derozan et al would fit into their own situation. Lowry could be the veteran and still solid point guard to help a young team to the playoffs....or be a very capable backup for a championship calibre team. Derozan could be the secondary scorer beside a superstar. I'm sure JV would be very useful for a lot of teams. Only Ibaka and Miles seem thoroughly unattractive.

Derozan's latest dark comments are quite disturbing. I've talked about this a few times this year but I think people underestimate the effect Demar's depression issues might have had on his season. I thought he was looking very, very good early on (even better defence) but there was a real decline after his family break-up, parent's illnesses and his open discussion of his mood problem. If his situation isn't better (and it could be real psychiatric illness) next year his value to us or another team will be in question.

[GOLDBLUM]

we will not be better next year. this was our window and they couldn't taken advantage of it. Time to move on. Raps are starting a slow disassemble of this team and we'll go into rebuild in 2 years. Years of being "competitive" are kinda gone

I don’t agree. While I hope Masai does everything within his power to help this team succeed this offseason, there’s really no reason why we can’t be better next year. Players can learn and grow. New coaching could make a huge difference. Watching Serge, he’s a big concern to me, but there’s no reason why everyone else on this roster can’t be better, can’t work hard in the off-season and learn from this process. Even Kyle. There’s no reason why he has to take an immediate downslope. And the youth have nowhere to go but up. I’m not saying we’ll get 60 wins. And that really shouldn’t be our goal. But this squad could absolutely improve, make strides and go further in the postseason. And yeah, yeah, such and such may happen with Boston, Philly, Cleveland etc., but this group, as is, could still figure it out.

Don’t get me wrong. DD has yet to show us he can put it together on D and has some real learning to do before we should get our hopes up. Hopefully, if he’s back, as he has with something every year, that’s the thing he really adds to his game. I’m ok with a trade if it improves our chances of moving forward. But I don’t buy the narrative that there’s no way this team can compete and we should just pack up our tents and head home.

[Demographic Shift]

I don't know how Masai will be able to deliever any positive press conferences in the near future unless he starts to disassemble some big pieces from the core. Just looking at how Indiana & Boston have won 3 games each in the playoffs against the Cavs while Toronto managed none is baffling for a team that is in all intents and purposes better then them. As much as Casey took some of the blame and got fired, the players we have need to also take part of the blame and be shipped out of town. There were 2 games where Toronto at the very least should have won but due to bone headed errors and missed shots due to lack of mental/testicular fortitude we did not. A new coach isn't gonna change much unless we start to look for opportunities to find players who don't easily buckle under the pressure and fall apart come playoffs time.

Casey took two behind the left ear for the failure to take out Cleveland. The tethered goat so to speak.

Ujiri was gobsmacked at how his players wilted under pressure and caved. So was everyone else. So now he gets about 6 weeks to calibrate if the new voice with a 3 year deal MAKES Kyle and DD play defense.. cuz they are as capable as the next player of doing that... or does he want a definative break with the past and move one .. not both.. of DD or Kyle.

With an all nba selection....a few consecutive allstar credentials AND a couple of USA basketball team selection DD has a ton of value regardless of what the armchair GM's on this board pontificate. Lowry has value as well.

Whichever one can get the most value in a trade in exchange for players that have shown something in the league so far is the one who might go.

DD a Cali guy with value can go to either of the Lakers or Clips and return "right now" good value.

The only team that wants to win right now and needs a PG is Minny so Ujiri has to figure out if he can launder Powell in that deal as well..... if its even on his radar.

Uriri has enough capital to embark on a re-tool as opposed to a rebuild....
He can also stay the course and choose to see if a new voice can get DD and Kyle to committ serious effort to defense and hope that turns into playoff success.

Should be an interesting off season eh ?

[inthepaint]

I don’t agree. While I hope Masai does everything within his power to help this team succeed this offseason, there’s really no reason why we can’t be better next year. Players can learn and grow. New coaching could make a huge difference. Watching Serge, he’s a big concern to me, but there’s no reason why everyone else on this roster can’t be better, can’t work hard in the off-season and learn from this process. Even Kyle. There’s no reason why he has to take an immediate downslope. And the youth have nowhere to go but up. I’m not saying we’ll get 60 wins. And that really shouldn’t be our goal. But this squad could absolutely improve, make strides and go further in the postseason. And yeah, yeah, such and such may happen with Boston, Philly, Cleveland etc., but this group, as is, could still figure it out.

Don’t get me wrong. DD has yet to show us he can put it together on D and has some real learning to do before we should get our hopes up. Hopefully, if he’s back, as he has with something every year, that’s the thing he really adds to his game. I’m ok with a trade if it improves our chances of moving forward. But I don’t buy the narrative that there’s no way this team can compete and we should just pack up our tents and head home.

Agreed with that. For the first time in years, Raptors were the favourites and the better team coming in against the cavs. 2 factors killed them:
1. Poor in-game coaching decisions
2. Allowing the play of LBJ and a 1-pt OT loss in game 1 to rattle them emotionally more than it should have (which translated into distracted/fearful individual and team defence)

First one is taken care of (hopefully). Taking care of the second one should be the goal of the summer. Imo, this could be accomplished by trading Demar to a package of defensive, tough-minded two-way players (preferably with playoff experience), in a move that in a vacuum may seem lateral (i.e. same pound-for-pound talent), but for us it will be an improvement, because it would precisely strike at the heart of our problem.

We can definitely become better. Give the newly established offence, which performed beautifully on its first year, a chance to breathe under the leadership of a new coach (whom would also have tough minded defensive leaders on the court at his disposal if we trade right this summer).

Then in summer 2019, if we still get owned by LBJ, Masai can then say: "screw it, I changed the offence, changed the coach, changed the defence, and they still fell short. Let's rebuild".

But right now we haven't done all we can just yet, and there's a chance this summer to do it. Bring on the PJ Tuckers, Lance Stephesons and Marcus Smarts of the world, whom we all hate on other teams, but would love if they were here.