Everything 2018 Off Season

[Shaolin Fantastic]

You answered your own question. We wouldn't deal OG as well because it's more likely than not a 1 year deal. Hence the sticking point. If we aren't even allowed to talk to Kawhi how the fuck would we have assurances he'll stay beyond a season, or at least consider it.

Why I'm almost positive we've offered DD is because Windhorst and Lowe think we did, and they're by far the best sources anyone has posted so far.

Wrong. Lowe said what HE would offer, and Windhorst only only says "OG has to be in the deal".

[DogeLover1234]

That's what I'm wondering, because all the reports so far seem to conflict with that idea.

It also doesn't really fit Masai's M.O. as Scraptor outlined.

I actually think it's more likely Masai just cashes in JV and almost all his prospect chips in the deal instead. Windhorst also seems to be the most connected here and said OG has to be in the deal when Lowe proposed a DeMar-centered one.

I mean reputable sources have shaired the same speculation making it pretty believable. Of course nobody knows for sure, nobody claims to. The whole offseason reputable people have been saying Raps are open to trading anyone and recently they are the leading team to get Kawhi, reading between the lines, its not a stretch to believe they are open to trading DD. Its not a matter of knowing, its just reasonable speculation.

[Primer]

Wrong. Lowe said what HE would offer, and Windhorst only only says "OG has to be in the deal".

Can you post a link to a single media member suggesting a deal that doesn't involve DD? It seems to me that the 100% consensus out there is DD has to be in the deal.

[LJ2]

Bringing Kawhi in is an all-in play for Ujiri. He knows it's a one year rental, so the goal can't just be making it to the finals, but winning it all. Doesn't make sense to gut the team of two starters in order bring Kawhi in. Is the team better with Kawhi, or DeMar and OG?

[Primer]

Bringing Kawhi in is an all-in play for Ujiri. He knows it's a one year rental, so the goal can't just be making it to the finals, but winning it all. Doesn't make sense to gut the team of two starters in order bring Kawhi in. Is the team better with Kawhi, or DeMar and OG?

That's why you don't deal OG. Then it's swapping one starter for another starter.

For those worried he wouldn't play for us, he would have $20 Million reasons to do so if traded here:

Around Leonard, there have been suggestions that he has no intention of entering the Spurs' practice facility again, which rival teams consider an empty threat unless he's willing to incur a forfeiture of his $20 million salary and fines.

[Barolt]

I would probably just assume at this point that if a trade happens, it's something like: DeMar, OG, Norm, a 1st, for Kawhi and Pau.

Maybe it's less than that! But that's probably the safest assumption is that structurally it looks something like that.

[KeonClark]

Can you post a link to a single media member suggesting a deal that doesn't involve DD? It seems to me that the 100% consensus out there is DD has to be in the deal.

So? A million media members thought thered be a kings ransom for George. Many more thought cousins was staying in new Orleans. More still thought love for klay would have been a great trade for golden state

What the media thinks (as In, "if i was toronto this is what I would do") means about as much as what you or i think

[Shaolin Fantastic]

That's why you don't deal OG. Then it's swapping one starter for another starter.

For those worried he wouldn't play for us, he would have $20 Million reasons to do so if traded here:

Around Leonard, there have been suggestions that he has no intention of entering the Spurs' practice facility again, which rival teams consider an empty threat unless he's willing to incur a forfeiture of his $20 million salary and fines.

The only thing we've heard concretely on the make-up of a trade from any reputable reporter is Windhorst saying "OG has to be in the deal". Everything else has been people speculating on what they would offer (Lowe) or what they think the deal would be (others).

[DanH]

That's what I'm wondering, because all the reports so far seem to conflict with that idea.

It also doesn't really fit Masai's M.O. as Scraptor outlined.

I actually think it's more likely Masai just cashes in JV and almost all his prospect chips in the deal instead. Windhorst also seems to be the most connected here and said OG has to be in the deal when Lowe proposed a DeMar-centered one.

Oh? All the reports conflict with that idea? You mean this one report, which rather explicitly lays out that the Spurs are asking for not just an all-star, but also high upside young pieces and picks? And the wording of which describing the league in general probably just means they haven't generally been offered all-star returns?

If you actually read all the reports - including the suggestion that the Raptors are in the drivers seat and are a destination to take seriously - the implication is that the Raptors have made an offer that is causing other teams to back out of the bidding. The only such offer the Raptors could make is including an all star. That may be Lowry. But it seems more likely to be DeMar. Admittedly, I would prefer it be DeMar.

[KeonClark]

I would probably just assume at this point that if a trade happens, it's something like: DeMar, OG, Norm, a 1st, for Kawhi and Pau.

Maybe it's less than that! But that's probably the safest assumption is that structurally it looks something like that.

That's just way too much for me. Maybe if we were acquiring normal Kawhi Leonard with no baggage. This is not a pleasant process right now for spurs. Apparently blazers aren't offering McCollum or lillard. No wall or Beal allowed in the wiz offers. No goodies from philly. Boston might be willing to part with Aaron baynes if they ask nicely. And we're still on this superstar package, like our best in his prime player and our best young player. I think the tea leaves are being misread here. Don't get into a bidding war against yourself.

[DanH]

Everyone here, including DanH and Barolt, are letting their biases dictate their notions. Some people here really want Derozan gone. Some people would rather it be JV. Some people would throw everything including the kitchen sink to get Kawhi. Some want 0 parts of him.

And all of these people, coming at it from each direction, are letting their bias and preference take over when they indicate what they "think" is happening. Cause nobody knows.

If I were letting my biases dictate my notions, I wouldn't be remotely considering OG a key part of the deal. My preferred trade has been online for quite some time.

Heck, my stance against trading JV for a very long time has largely been centered on him having no trade value in the modern NBA. That's clearly true for Ibaka now as well. So why are people automatically biased for recognizing the market that exists for players like that, and applying that to the current situation?

I fully admit that my selection of DeMar over Lowry is probably at least partially driven by my personal bias over who should be kept. I do also think the logic for the Spurs and Raptors stands up with that selection, but there's definitely bias in there too.

Now obviously no one knows. But I haven't seen a single person even attempt (in any reasonable way) to explain why the Raptors would be considered serious candidates to win a bidding war over Kawhi (however suppressed) if they were not including one of their all-stars. Surely no one on this board overvalues JV, Ibaka, or our collection of late-first-round prospects that much.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Oh? All the reports conflict with that idea? You mean this one report, which rather explicitly lays out that the Spurs are asking for not just an all-star, but also high upside young pieces and picks? And the wording of which describing the league in general probably just means they haven't generally been offered all-star returns?

If you actually read all the reports - including the suggestion that the Raptors are in the drivers seat and are a destination to take seriously - the implication is that the Raptors have made an offer that is causing other teams to back out of the bidding. The only such offer the Raptors could make is including an all star. That may be Lowry. But it seems more likely to be DeMar. Admittedly, I would prefer it be DeMar.

That is simply not true.

Boston isn't putting Jaylen Brown or Tatum in a trade for Kawhi, that means they can't offer a better prospect than OG. Philly isn't putting Simmons or Embiid and Fultz is a total unknown with his arm injury, so they also cannot offer a better prospect. The other teams mentioned like Portland and Washington don't have any good prospects to trade and LAC only has SGA. The Lakers do but the Spurs seem highly opposed to trading him to exactly where he wants to go.

The Raptors can offer OG, multiple other prospects (Siakam, Wright) a young starting center and a draft pick and possibly even a future one considering they'd be retaining both DeMar and Kyle. I'm not sure how any other contending team can beat that offer, hence us being in the driver's seat.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

That's just way too much for me. Maybe if we were acquiring normal Kawhi Leonard with no baggage. This is not a pleasant process right now for spurs. Apparently blazers aren't offering McCollum or lillard. No wall or Beal allowed in the wiz offers. No goodies from philly. Boston might be willing to part with Aaron baynes if they ask nicely. And we're still on this superstar package, like our best in his prime player and our best young player. I think the tea leaves are being misread here. Don't get into a bidding war against yourself.

It's not a bidding war. When you assign DeMar a negative value, that trade looks a lot better.

[jimmie]

Heck, my stance against trading JV for a very long time has largely been centered on him having no trade value in the modern NBA. That's clearly true for Ibaka now as well.
...
But I haven't seen a single person even attempt (in any reasonable way) to explain why the Raptors would be considered serious candidates to win a bidding war over Kawhi (however suppressed) if they were not including one of their all-stars. Surely no one on this board overvalues JV, Ibaka, or our collection of late-first-round prospects that much.

SAS has no leverage. Zero. None. Nada. No one else is offering up their best players. Everyone knows SAS needs to trade him now and get something for him or endure a whole season with him disgruntled and/or not playing at all and get nothing for him. Toronto is considered a candidate partially because people think Ujiri is done with the current iteration and because Toronto has a lot of really good young players to trade as well as maybe being sour on their current core. All of which is conjecture.

So if the best offer SAS gets is JV and money filler, maybe a pick, then yeah, that’s the market for a Kawhi rental. Not sure why you want to artificially inflate the market; pretty sure Ujiri won’t.

[MixxAOR]

SAS has no leverage. Zero. None. Nada. No one else is offering up their best players. Everyone knows SAS needs to trade him now and get something for him or endure a whole season with him disgruntled and/or not playing at all and get nothing for him. Toronto is considered a candidate partially because people think Ujiri is done with the current iteration and because Toronto has a lot of really good young players to trade as well as maybe being sour on their current core. All of which is conjecture.

So if the best offer SAS gets is JV and money filler, maybe a pick, then yeah, that’s the market for a Kawhi rental. Not sure why you want to artificially inflate the market; pretty sure Ujiri won’t.

yeah they can wait till trade deadline. I don't know if Raptors will be interested by then