Everything 2018 Off Season

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Yeah, except Dallas is in the rare position of being able to offer a max deal when few other teams are able to, and they are going to get a star with that space if it kills them. Maybe that's a C, but if they strike out on the centres you think they'd hesitate at signing a top wing or guard to go get JV instead? They did it with Barnes and they'll do it again.

It's a delightful fever dream but it's not realistic. There's always some chance, obviously, but to plan for that to be the case would be incredibly foolhardy for the Raptors' front office. And if they are going to chase a Norm deal instead, they have to do that before they see how free agency goes for it to have a good shot of happening.

Obviously Masai is magic and is quite capable of making me eat my words. But it cost multiple picks to shed Carroll (a deal that saved about 12M) in a far friendlier cap summer and a far stronger negotiating position for the Raptors.

Dude you're being really disingenuous saying this.

1.) JV has an expiring contract (well sort of, he has a player option, but he probably doesn't pick that up if he has a good season next year) in the summer, Carroll had 2 years left
2.) Carroll was 30 and playing fucking terribly, JV is 25 and having the best season of his career

Those 2 assets aren't even remotely comparable in terms of value.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I'm saying Barnes was a guy they were willing (eager) to chase like a star in free agency rather than use their cap space in trades. If the true big names say no to them again, they'll chase the next biggest potential stars on the market before turning to salary dumps.

Dude, fucking stop. This only applies to Ibaka.

A JV pickup would be pretty similar to what they tried with Barnes, if anything at a lower cost. Picking up a guy who was a role player on his previous team, who's already got a few seasons under his belt (6 for JV, 4 for Barnes) and seeing if he can do more with increased minutes and responsibility. JV is even lower risk than Barnes because they don't have to give him a max and he's paid a lot less. His per 36 minute numbers are insane this season, if you think no team would even take a flyer on that I'm not sure what's wrong with you.

I'm not advocating trading JV to Dallas, I'm just saying that it's pretty dumb to act like they wouldn't be interested. They don't have a long or even short-term solution at center, and could also use a nice pick and roll partner for DSJ. If they don't get Cousins or DeAndre Jordan in free agency, he could be a guy they seriously look at.

[planetmars]

Get rid of our 3rd best player to keep our 4th best player? Who probably isn’t even our 4th best player? I don’t see it.

Yeah you are right.. but JV was apparently shopped at the dead line (not sure if that was a rumour or not so take it with a grain of salt). JV also has a guy knocking on his door in Poeltl. Jak could replace JV in the starting unit and we might still be alright. We'd have to probably bring Bebe back to be his backup or rely on Serge to play more C.

JV > Fred overall.. but we have Poeltl to replace JV and not much to replace Fred. You could say Wright but Wright and Fred really play different positions. Wright in this system plays more like DD while Fred is more like Lowry. Fred also closes more games, Wright does not. JV doesn't close a lot of games either. Brown is useless and I mean we could scour free agency, buy a pick or look at undrafted kids to replace FVV. But Fred's been pretty good and I'm not sure we could find someone to replace what he does that easily for dirt cheap (I mean we'd be looking at a minimum salary guy otherwise we could just bring Fred back).

I'd rather keep everyone (heck it's not my money).. and if we had to lose one I'd probably lean on Fred over JV too. But who knows if Masai feels the same way, and I guess that's the point I was trying to make more than anything.

[DanH]

Dude, fucking stop. This only applies to Ibaka.

A JV pickup would be pretty similar to what they tried with Barnes, if anything at a lower cost. Picking up a guy who was a role player on his previous team, who's already got a few seasons under his belt (6 for JV, 4 for Barnes) and seeing if he can do more with increased minutes and responsibility. JV is even lower risk than Barnes because they don't have to give him a max and he's paid a lot less. His per 36 minute numbers are insane this season, if you think no team would even take a flyer on that I'm not sure what's wrong with you.

I'm not advocating trading JV to Dallas, I'm just saying that it's pretty dumb to act like they wouldn't be interested. They don't have a long or even short-term solution at center, and could also use a nice pick and roll partner for DSJ. If they don't get Cousins or DeAndre Jordan in free agency, he could be a guy they seriously look at.

Come on, his per 36 minute numbers are marginally better than they've always been. And yet earlier this season you led the charge on JV being benched.

JV's value as a player is one I've been very high on for a very long time. But his trade value is nil, and a good year this year won't change that. Centres are still out of style, and cap teams don't trade for soon-to-be expiring deals when they can use their cap room to sign a star.

A team would certainly take a flyer on JV. Whether that team would give up cap space in a summer where it is like freaking gold is another question entirely.

[DanH]

Dude you're being really disingenuous saying this.

1.) JV has an expiring contract (well sort of, he has a player option, but he probably doesn't pick that up if he has a good season next year) in the summer, Carroll had 2 years left
2.) Carroll was 30 and playing fucking terribly, JV is 25 and having the best season of his career

Those 2 assets aren't even remotely comparable in terms of value.

A player option isn't a selling point, it's the worst of both worlds. Carroll bouncing back has him a contributor to the Nets. JV having a good year would mean he opts out and leaves, him having a bad year means he's a relatively poisonous asset who is now there for an extra season.

I'm not comparing their value. I'm saying that in a far friendlier cap world it cost that much to shed salary. If the Raptors are going to make a move to shed salary, you can bet teams will ask an exorbitant price no matter how they value JV, because there's not enough cap teams to leverage him for value. If another team will take him for fewer picks than you, then maybe you take him for free. But if you are the only possible landing place, and a team that's deep in the tax comes asking to dump salary on you? You'd better believe you're charging for that even if you like the player.

[white men can't jump]

Meh. We could probably dump Powell without too much difficulty. That would solve everything.

As much as people were high on Powell coming into this season, he was always going to have a hard time fitting in here for the long term, even if he played well. He's fairly tough, but way too undersized to match up against bigger wings consistently, and our backcourt is very crowded. His contract is probably easier to dump than JVs due to the difference in how bigs are valued against smalls these days. If Crabbe can get a near $20M contract, and guys like Harkless and Roberson are getting in the $10M range, some bad team could easily take a flyer on Powell if they have cap space to use. He still has promise and a new situation could at least bring back out the potentially solid 2-way role player he looked to be turning into before this season.

Don't think it would have to involve deciding on JV or Ibaka. We should be able to keep both those guys.

[Scraptor]

some bad team could easily take a flyer on Powell if they have cap space to use.

The capspace situation leaguewide is practically apocalyptic.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2018/

This summer, Smart, who will be a restricted free agent, might face an environment in which role players could struggle to field outside offers above the $8.8 million midlevel exception, according to multiple league executives.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...-crunch-coming

I think it's going to be pretty hard to dump him unless he really turns on the jets this postseason.

[sanyo]

Meh. We could probably dump Powell without too much difficulty. That would solve everything.

As much as people were high on Powell coming into this season, he was always going to have a hard time fitting in here for the long term, even if he played well. He's fairly tough, but way too undersized to match up against bigger wings consistently, and our backcourt is very crowded. His contract is probably easier to dump than JVs due to the difference in how bigs are valued against smalls these days. If Crabbe can get a near $20M contract, and guys like Harkless and Roberson are getting in the $10M range, some bad team could easily take a flyer on Powell if they have cap space to use. He still has promise and a new situation could at least bring back out the potentially solid 2-way role player he looked to be turning into before this season.

Don't think it would have to involve deciding on JV or Ibaka. We should be able to keep both those guys.

I dont know what team wants him without a draft pick attached

[TrueTorontoFan]

Dude you're being really disingenuous saying this.

1.) JV has an expiring contract (well sort of, he has a player option, but he probably doesn't pick that up if he has a good season next year) in the summer, Carroll had 2 years left
2.) Carroll was 30 and playing fucking terribly, JV is 25 and having the best season of his career

Those 2 assets aren't even remotely comparable in terms of value.

This is actually probably not the case. He will probably pick it up because teams who will have cap space are not plentiful two years ago or even to a lesser extent last year. The cap has flattened. It is in his best interest to exercise that option. The next time a ton of teams will have money is the same year that JV, Demar, Lowry, Ibaka are all up.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Keep in mind that on draft night Norm will still be making 1.4 mill, so his contract will be easier to move.

I think the most realistic scenario that we can hope for is someone trades us a 2nd for Norm on draft day. Take a team like Memphis that is over the cap and wants to get younger but has zero flexibility. Would they trade their 15th guy at 1.4 mill and a 2nd for Norm? They get younger, get another piece, and they are still not in the tax. It doesn’t impact their ability to get other free agents as they are maxed out anyway.

Masai then hits a home run with the pick and everyone wins.

[Raptor Jesus]

^^^^ Spectacular post.

MU we know you lurk and steal all our best ideas.

Put this one in play.

[NoPropsneeded]

Keep in mind that on draft night Norm will still be making 1.4 mill, so his contract will be easier to move.

I think the most realistic scenario that we can hope for is someone trades us a 2nd for Norm on draft day. Take a team like Memphis that is over the cap and wants to get younger but has zero flexibility. Would they trade their 15th guy at 1.4 mill and a 2nd for Norm? They get younger, get another piece, and they are still not in the tax. It doesn’t impact their ability to get other free agents as they are maxed out anyway.

Masai then hits a home run with the pick and everyone wins.

This. Idk why everyones freaking out about the capspace problem, if Norm needs to be moved he'll be moved its not that hard. MU moved Bargs, Gay, and Carroll the dude knows how to flip bad contracts he's a wizard

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Yeah the ease of moving Norm means JV likely won't be traded, nor should he. Unless of course we line up a deal that includes him in a package for a better player. Barring that might as well just keep him

[LJ2]

With Lowry and Ibaka showing signs of slowing down, is next season our last chance at making a run? If so this might be the off season where Masai goes for broke.

[charlesnba23]

Personnally, I don't see the point of trading Norm this summer, unless it gives you a considerable asset in return. Yes, he's having a bad season, but I think we should keep this guy at least another year before trying to trade him. Even though it will be tougher next season because he'll be paid more, I think there is more chance we won't want to trade him than we will.

And if we still want to trade him, I'm sure Masai will find the way.