Everything 2018 Off Season

[Shaolin Fantastic]

You have spent, like, thirty thousand posts complaining endlessly about Masai's moves, and your proposal is "let's trade a ton of assets for a superstar player who literally chose to sit on the bench with a fake injury rather than play for a team he decided he doesn't want to stay with."

This is why Masai has his job and you don't, you understand.

He didn't sit out with the Spurs because he doesn't want to play there. He sat out because he was injured and felt slighted by the organization because of Parker's comments in the media and them pressuring him to pay when he didn't feel he could.

As far as I know the Raptors organization hasn't slighted him. He's one of the top 5 players in the NBA, and this could be a real chance to get him. Yeah those are assets, but how valuable are they really? Poeltl and Wright are gonna be starters at the absolute best case and most likely to just be ok role players for their careers, and that pick will be in the mid-late 20s. Most people seem to think DeRozan hurts us and Kawhi is a massive upgrade on him.

This is the kind of deal I'm referring to that is somewhat risky that could potentially pay high dividends that I think Masai is unwilling to make. To be honest the risk isn't even really that bad because the assets don't have tremendous value, and if we really are operating on a 3-year window, then if Kawhi leaves you cut your losses and trade the Ibaka/Lowry/JV/CJ expirings for what you can get and kickstart a rebuild. We'd still have OG and Siakam in the deal I suggested, who are the only two prospects we have who I really see being starters on championship level teams anyway.

If he stays, you start building around Kawhi, OG and JV and go from there. It's a win for the Spurs too because they can still stay relevant while also adding to their asset base.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

You can't just keep saying "too risky, too risky, too risky" to everything. At a certain point we do need to try and swing for the fences or blow it up. Like what is the point. I don't care how good of a coach Nurse is, he's not getting this same roster to the finals. We have to either get better or cut our losses and get a lot worse and Kawhi is a way to potentially do the former.

All of a sudden with that trade we have a team that COULD actually win the title. Whereas right now we have a 0% chance of lifting it. We'd have a guy who can at least stay competitive with Curry in Lowry. We'd have the best two-way player in the series. We'd have a big we could potentially put out there to prevent them from using their small ball lineups with the right tactics. We'd have two great perimeter defenders to throw at KD (and Curry).

If you guys want to just never ever take a risk, then yeah we don't make that trade and we don't really make any trade because at the end of the day basically any trade that's remotely realistic is going to be "too risky" when it comes to moving our core guys or assets.

[planetmars]

If what you are saying is true that Masai is not pursuing the rebuild route and more of a retool then acquiring a legit All Star/ Superstar is the way to go. So who is available out there? Obviously aside from Lebron, Kawhi is the next best thing. He is a rental but what other options does Masai have unless he wanted to stay the course and just be embarrased again past 82.

The more I think about it I think there is going to be an LAC/Toronto trade this summer featuring DeMar. LAC traded up to select SGA the same kid that Toronto was rumored to be attached to (and a Canadian nonetheless).

I could see Masai looking at his team and realizing defense was the biggest reason we lost to the Cavs.. and so I could see Masai asking for SGA+Bradley (in a S&T) for DeMar.

DeMar goes to LA to play in his home town. LAC gets an all-star they can build with. They are still just trying to get back into the playoffs.

They could offer Bradley something like $15M a year.. which should get them below the tax even with FVV in the rotation. They would have a glut of PG's so something would have to give there. Maybe try to package Delon with Powell so that we can get a 3&D type of player or a third center to replace Bebe. Maybe to Orlando who have a bunch of bigs on their roster.

[planetmars]

I forgot that we could use the 2019 pick now.. Yeah a DD+Poeltl (or Wright) +2019 pick is what I would offer for Kawhi. That 2019 pick will be pretty terrible if Kawhi plays to his potential in Toronto and doesn't sit out like a baby all year.

[planetmars]

You can't just keep saying "too risky, too risky, too risky" to everything. At a certain point we do need to try and swing for the fences or blow it up. Like what is the point. I don't care how good of a coach Nurse is, he's not getting this same roster to the finals. We have to either get better or cut our losses and get a lot worse and Kawhi is a way to potentially do the former.

All of a sudden with that trade we have a team that COULD actually win the title. Whereas right now we have a 0% chance of lifting it. We'd have a guy who can at least stay competitive with Curry in Lowry. We'd have the best two-way player in the series. We'd have a big we could potentially put out there to prevent them from using their small ball lineups with the right tactics. We'd have two great perimeter defenders to throw at KD (and Curry).

If you guys want to just never ever take a risk, then yeah we don't make that trade and we don't really make any trade because at the end of the day basically any trade that's remotely realistic is going to be "too risky" when it comes to moving our core guys or assets.

You also have to assume that Pops would want DeMar. He may not like his game and says no to him. They may blow it up and would just want picks/prospects or expiring contracts. We don't have the latter unfortunately.

[DogeLover1234]

It's not going to be as good as Paul George, because unlike George, who simply asked to be sent to a contender - which meant there were multiple bidders - Kawhi's camp are telling anybody who listen he's going to the Lakers the first chance he gets, period, end of story, finito.

My guess would be it's one of Lonzo Ball or Brandon Ingram, maybe a smaller player the Lakers don't especially care about like Tyler Ennis or one of their picks this year, and a protected first-round draft pick, and that is the absolute ceiling for Kawhi. The Spurs don't take back Luol Deng's bad money, because they don't need to and because the Lakers can bribe someone else to turn Deng's contract into usable players anyway.

I don't really get why LA would trade anything significant for Kawhi, when as you say he very explicitly wants to go there next year. It seems like everyone else is hesitant to give up a lot of assets for a rental, and San Antonio wants a lot coming back (rightfully so). Unless LeBron coming to LA is conditional on them getting Kawhi or George, it seems like they would be better off keeping their assets to make a team to rival the other contenders.

Yeah I would have no issue with making a Kawhi move, so long as you can keep Lowry, OG, JV. I think those four have a decent chance at winning the east. That being said, it sounds like San Antonio wants a lot, so I doubt they move Kawhi to Toronto for purely basketball reasons.

[inthepaint]

Dipo wasn't an all-star when he was traded for George. Indiana turned him into one. But the package you mentioned is probably what could get it done.

Philly with Covo+Fultz is probably the one that I could see SA listening to.

Boston's tough. I don't see them moving Hayward at all. Kyrie possibly but again I'm not sure what they do there.. especially with Smart most likely on his way out. Rozier stepped up his game but they won't have any decent PG after him. Their young guys make too little to offer in a package that works.

Milwaukee could be in the mix too to try and keep Giannis around. Middleton+Brogdon maybe?

Washington could offer Porter and if Kawhi leaves it'll help them with their cap situation the following year. Doubt they do that though.

Toronto would have to offer DD a young prospect like Siakam or OG most likely. DD playing the Dipo role in the trade with Siakam/OG playing the Sabonis role. Of course Pops would want that. Not sure if Masai would want to lose a good prospect like OG or Siakam for a one year rental.

I don't really see any other Eastern team in the mix. Orlando, Atlanta, NY, Brooklyn, Charlotte, Chicago are all pretty much still rebuilding. Detroit and Cleveland have awful contracts. And Miami is probably still trying to develop their young guys.

Yeah, realistically teams that go for rentals are the ones that had/have a shot at the finals as currently constructed. In the East we're talking seeds 1 through 4 last year. If he's heading East before LA, these are somewhat the packages I see being offered:

--TOR: DD + Delon or Poeltl (OG and Siakam are the most verstaile defenders we have, I don't see MU putting them up for a rental)
--BOS: Hayward + Brown (hard to see them giving up Brown for a rental, he was a key part of their ECF run, but it could happen)
--Philly: They're certainly not doing Simmons or Embiid on a rental, so that leaves Roco + Fultz, which is a weak package compared to the rest.
--Cavs: If Lebron stays maybe Love + Hood/Nance, but if Bron leaves they're tanking, and I don't see them going for Kawhi

[KeonClark]

Honestly if the plan is to rebuild after next year anyway...

Why not just offer DeRozan, Wright, Poeltl and our 2019 1st for Kawhi? Yeah it sounds like a fucking lot but it actually gives us a chance to get to the finals potentially since we'd have the 2nd best player in the east (or best if LeBron goes west) and a pretty damn good team around him (with FVV re-signed we'd just have to shore up backup center with our mini-MLE or just give Ibaka those minutes).

If he leaves so what? You lost some prospects that aren't going to be stars anyway and actually gave it a REAL shot at winning the NBA title. OG and Kawhi would be probably the best defensive wing pairing in the league. Lowry would be the 2nd best player on the team (which I think he's capable of being on a championship team) and we'd have a real superstar leading the way.

For the Spurs they get a couple prospects as well as a pick and DeRozan's good enough to give them a go-to wing scorer and also keep them competitive in the western conference. If Kawhi wants out anyway, that's a pretty good haul that's probably not going to be matched by Boston who aren't going to be willing to give up Hayward or Kyrie if they have no idea if Kawhi's re-signing or not.

There is no plan To "rebuild next year" anyways. This is just something in the RR echo chamber that DanH and barolt tell the guys who want to tank like the hinkies to keep you pacified. Similar to telling your kids theres no monsters under your bed.

I outlined above what Ujiris philosophies are and how theyre different than a hinkie or a morey. Don't get me wrong, he wants to hit a home run...but he'll take walks while he waits for his pitch, he's not gonna take an uppercut swing at every curveball and change up

[Hotshot]

Had to come out and support the fam! @TorontoArgos #WeTheNorth x #PullTogether pic.twitter.com/B3UPm5fPrp

— Toronto Raptors (@Raptors) June 23, 2018

[planetmars]

I don't really get why LA would trade anything significant for Kawhi, when as you say he very explicitly wants to go there next year. It seems like everyone else is hesitant to give up a lot of assets for a rental, and San Antonio wants a lot coming back (rightfully so). Unless LeBron coming to LA is conditional on them getting Kawhi or George, it seems like they would be better off keeping their assets to make a team to rival the other contenders.

Yeah I would have no issue with making a Kawhi move, so long as you can keep Lowry, OG, JV. I think those four have a decent chance at winning the east. That being said, it sounds like San Antonio wants a lot, so I doubt they move Kawhi to Toronto for purely basketball reasons.

Other stars might be hesitant to play alone for a year in LA. So once they get Kawhi it's easier to attract other stars like Lebron or George. Bird in the hand..

[Shaolin Fantastic]

There is no plan To "rebuild next year" anyways. This is just something in the RR echo chamber that DanH and barolt tell the guys who want to tank like the hinkies to keep you pacified. Similar to telling your kids theres no monsters under your bed.

I outlined above what Ujiris philosophies are and how theyre different than a hinkie or a morey. Don't get me wrong, he wants to hit a home run...but he'll take walks while he waits for his pitch, he's not gonna take an uppercut swing at every curveball and change up

But how is this an uppercut swing?

Would we really be killing ourselves if we gave up DeMar, Wright, Poeltl and a late 1st and Kawhi walked? Yes you've lost out on assets but they're not amazing ones anyway.

[Apollo]

@Claw.

Well, Masai certainly fulfilled this promise.....



59-win seasons and losing to Lebron in the playoffs.... and everybody around here wants his head. lol.

I want him to take more risks. I trust his ability to win deals. Positive criticism. If anyone wants him fired then they've lost touch with reality.

[DogeLover1234]

Other stars might be hesitant to play alone for a year in LA. So once they get Kawhi it's easier to attract other stars like Lebron or George. Bird in the hand..

Isn't it a better sell to say, "Hey we all know Kawhi is coming next off season and if you sign we have a deal in place to get player X (say DD) if you sign here. Thats a great team this season and the best team in the league in two years." Don't get me wrong there is a risk there, but it seems like a much higher payoff if things go right.

[KeonClark]

But how is this an uppercut swing?

Would we really be killing ourselves if we gave up DeMar, Wright, Poeltl and a late 1st and Kawhi walked? Yes you've lost out on assets but they're not amazing ones anyway.

To some, no. If it all blows up then we fall ass backwards into a tank and 50% of this board is happy anyways. But again, that doesn't seem to be the philosophy of the team.

And maybe those aren't "amazing" assets, but many of them could be part of a solution going forward, or used to keep an all star more than 1 year. And I hate dismissing the 2019 pick as a "late first"..in reality it'd be the 2nd straight year of not picking. And dealing 3 core players for a flight risk who spent all year last year injured or unhappy? It would really suck to lose the safety net the 2019 provides it the bottom fell out on us next year

[Rudy Bargnani]

I don't really get why LA would trade anything significant for Kawhi, when as you say he very explicitly wants to go there next year. It seems like everyone else is hesitant to give up a lot of assets for a rental, and San Antonio wants a lot coming back (rightfully so). Unless LeBron coming to LA is conditional on them getting Kawhi or George, it seems like they would be better off keeping their assets to make a team to rival the other contenders.

Yeah I would have no issue with making a Kawhi move, so long as you can keep Lowry, OG, JV. I think those four have a decent chance at winning the east. That being said, it sounds like San Antonio wants a lot, so I doubt they move Kawhi to Toronto for purely basketball reasons.

If LA signs Lebron and say Paul George this summer they will have no cap space next year to sign Kawhi. The easiest path to 3 superstars for the Lakers is trading for Kawhi when his salary is still “small” by sending out Deng and prospects.