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  • GLF wrote: View Post
    I meant pessimist in the sense of us bringing back the exact same team. I already know we aren't winning a championship or beating Lebron with this team lol
    Are we the same team?
    OK, mostly same players but:
    -Our young bench that was very effective has 1 more year under their belt to continue improving; Our 2 young guys OG & Siakam were huge positive contributors. Any reason they dont continue to improve?
    -New coach that helped in a major way re design our offence. Thanks to Casey (likely) in playoff that offence went back to old iso ways. I dont think iso will be an issue this year;
    -Minimal changes in personel (maybe FVV & Bebe). I am a firm believer that continuity can be huge for still very young team.

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    • planetmars wrote: View Post
      Don't forget Noah's $18M contract next season.

      Using Shams Capulator.. if Kanter opts out and the Knicks renounce all their free agents, they'll have $82M in salary. Cap is expected to be at $101M so they'll have about $18.5M to play with. Could take bad contracts for picks.. just like Atlanta could.

      But it's NY. They'll probably fill that cap space with some mediocre free agent and call it a day. I don't see them taking Powell. And if they do it'll be for a pick.
      Good point but I was just referring to people at his position he may not beat out.

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      • Mapko wrote: View Post
        If we are .700 at deadline, why in the world would you dismantle the team, tank, unload best players for draft choice, tank like hell (yes tank more) , while likely winning 28-35 games (out of playoff, not high enough in lottery). All this in hope (while tanking 4-5 yrs) to land some good player in draft that will propel us to a 50 win team.

        Wait, we already have a 50 win team & a solid young bench that is just as likely to develop as tanking might.
        I'd understand tanking if you are say Orlando, Detroit, Knicks (fairly high salary, lousy team record) but why tank with a FIFTY NINE win team????
        Because:
        -the goal is a championship
        -the regular season means very little when it comes to playoff performance
        -we've had 4/5 seasons of playoff disappointment
        -our stars have two years left of potential trade value and that value is waning each day

        More regular season wins aren't going to tell us anything new about this team. But your post shows exactly why we can't make moves in-season; Masai cares too much about optics to defend a teardown amidst a winning season.

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        • Mapko wrote: View Post
          Are we the same team?
          OK, mostly same players but:
          -Our young bench that was very effective has 1 more year under their belt to continue improving; Our 2 young guys OG & Siakam were huge positive contributors. Any reason they dont continue to improve?
          -New coach that helped in a major way re design our offence. Thanks to Casey (likely) in playoff that offence went back to old iso ways. I dont think iso will be an issue this year;
          -Minimal changes in personel (maybe FVV & Bebe). I am a firm believer that continuity can be huge for still very young team.
          If the Celtics do nothing at all they get the same advantage you describe the Raptors getting. Plus they get a healthy Kyrie Irving and Gordan Hayward. Plus they got an insane steal in Robert Williams at #28.

          The 76ers have the same advantage you describe for the the Raptors only given the talent of the players doing the growing it should be as if it were on steroids. Plus they have enough cap space to sign LeBron or Paul George.

          The Raptors are on the decline in respect to other top eastern competitors even if they improve a little.

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          • Apollo wrote: View Post
            If the Celtics do nothing at all they get the same advantage you describe the Raptors getting. Plus they get a healthy Kyrie Irving and Gordan Hayward. Plus they got an insane steal in Robert Williams at #28.

            The 76ers have the same advantage you describe for the the Raptors only given the talent of the players doing the growing it should be as if it were on steroids. Plus they have enough cap space to sign LeBron or Paul George.

            The Raptors are on the decline in respect to other top eastern competitors even if they improve a little.
            Not to mention both of those teams have multiple high-end prospects who will only continue to get better. Tatum and Brown for the Celtics and Embiid, Simmons and maybe Fultz if he ever rediscovers his shot for the Sixers. These guys are far better players right now and prospects for the future than OG and our other prospects are a ways off even OG (except maybe Siakam).

            They were already almost as good (you could easily argue the Celtics were better) than us last year, and now you're talking about the Celtics having Hayward for a full season and another year of development for their guys, and ditto for Simmons, Embiid, Saric, etc in Philly.

            That's why it's so disingenuous when people say, "why would a 50 win team tank???" Yeah if we were a team being led by young guys with tons of upside and we just won 59 games and got swept by Cleveland, nobody would be calling for a tank. The problem is our core guys aren't going to get any better and our prospects aren't all-star potential guys. For Boston and Philly it's very different, they both have tremendous upside. Even you could argue Milwaukee has more upside than we do which is why Budenholzer went there (because they have a lot of young talent plus an actual superstar in Giannis not the fake ones we have here).

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            • On reflection, my best uninformed guess as to what happens this year is that we trade Norm away to dump salary if possible, we decline to resign Bebe, and we bring Vince on board for 1 year to continue to stoke good feelings and good will within the fan base. [It also gives Nurse one shot at making noise in the playoffs, and the youngsters one more year on a winning team.] Once we've done that, barring unexpected success in the playoffs, we dismantle everything, sending Demar and Kyle away for young talent and/or picks.
              Last edited by TheWaterboy; Mon Jun 25, 2018, 08:36 AM. Reason: I can't sentence good today.

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              • Mapko wrote: View Post
                If we are .700 at deadline, why in the world would you dismantle the team, tank, unload best players for draft choice, tank like hell (yes tank more) , while likely winning 28-35 games (out of playoff, not high enough in lottery). All this in hope (while tanking 4-5 yrs) to land some good player in draft that will propel us to a 50 win team.
                Wait, we already have a 50 win team & a solid young bench that is just as likely to develop as tanking might.
                I'd understand tanking if you are say Orlando, Detroit, Knicks (fairly high salary, lousy team record) but why tank with a FIFTY NINE win team????
                Because Demar is in the MVP conversation every February, and in the LVP conversation by the time the draft rolls around. If you're considering trading him at all, then you do it during the regular season when his value is the highest. Ideally, it would be for an upgrade, not necessarily a tank move.

                The off-season is the worst time for Masai to make trades.
                Last edited by golden; Mon Jun 25, 2018, 11:21 AM.

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                • The issue with max contracts in today's NBA. Denver has no choice but to do this. He's a great player but has limitations, especially defensively.

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                  • Say if we end up trading for a 1 year rental of Kawhi. For a mixture of DD, Poetl, Norm etc (a good haul but not the farm). Would that prevent us from flipping him to someone in the west, further in the season?

                    Could we capitalize on a Spurs protocol?

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                    • Shredder wrote: View Post
                      Say if we end up trading for a 1 year rental of Kawhi. For a mixture of DD, Poetl, Norm etc (a good haul but not the farm). Would that prevent us from flipping him to someone in the west, further in the season?

                      Could we capitalize on a Spurs protocol?
                      There is a period after the trade where he would not be permitted to be moved. If it were done over the off-season he could be moved again at the deadline. Masai would be dealing with the Spurs though and he's probably not going to outclass them in a trade. If he feels he can flip Leonard at the deadline for more than you mentioned then the Spurs too would probably have the same conclusion unless its a wrong conclusion.

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                      • Shredder wrote: View Post
                        Say if we end up trading for a 1 year rental of Kawhi. For a mixture of DD, Poetl, Norm etc (a good haul but not the farm). Would that prevent us from flipping him to someone in the west, further in the season?

                        Could we capitalize on a Spurs protocol?
                        Why would you want to do that? If you're acquiring him, is it not go "all In" for the playoffs?
                        9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                        • planetmars wrote: View Post




                          The issue with max contracts in today's NBA. Denver has no choice but to do this. He's a great player but has limitations, especially defensively.
                          That is just stupid. Not what you said, but the amount of money Denver is giving Jokic.

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                          • Jokic's contract is a good contract.
                            twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                            • JV's contract is a great contract.

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                              • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                                JV's contract is a great contract.
                                Jokic is way better than JV..or any other Toronto Raptor
                                9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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