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  • inthepaint wrote: View Post
    In a hypothetical, completely theoretical exercise (we'd have no way to know this for sure):

    Assuming it was known that it was possible to acquire Butler with just veteran role players, whose absence won't really hurt us now or in the future (i.e. no future picks or prospects, aside from maybe Wright in the deal), but it was also known that this would guarantee that neither him (Butler) nor Leonard would re-sign (would convert Leonard to a strict rental from whatever abstract chance there is now that he will re-up)

    Who here does it, and who doesn't?
    If you get Butler and you dont lose Lowry, Kawhi, OG, JV, Siakam & FVV, you damn right you do it! With Kawhi we know chances are good we are making the finals. Now with Butler chances are good we will give the Warriors a really good run for the championship. My attitude is that even if Kawhi & Butler walk at the end of it all, its championship or bust. This is a great window of opportuinty to have before The Celtics and 76'ers surpass the Raptors and by next year it might be too late.

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    • inthepaint wrote: View Post
      In a hypothetical, completely theoretical exercise (we'd have no way to know this for sure):

      Assuming it was known that it was possible to acquire Butler with just veteran role players, whose absence won't really hurt us now or in the future (i.e. no future picks or prospects, aside from maybe Wright in the deal), but it was also known that this would guarantee that neither him (Butler) nor Leonard would re-sign (would convert Leonard to a strict rental from whatever abstract chance there is now that he will re-up)

      Who here does it, and who doesn't?
      So we get Butler for free and as an expiring for no names?

      LOL easy decision.

      Comment


      • Hotshot wrote: View Post
        If you get Butler and you dont lose Lowry, Kawhi, OG, JV, Siakam & FVV, you damn right you do it! With Kawhi we know chances are good we are making the finals. Now with Butler chances are good we will give the Warriors a really good run for the championship. My attitude is that even if Kawhi & Butler walk at the end of it all, its championship or bust. This is a great window of opportuinty to have before The Celtics and 76'ers surpass the Raptors and by next year it might be too late.
        If we don't get Butler, but Kawhi re-signs and attracts another high-end free agent (e.g Giannis), and we retain all our high-end youth and picks, would the 76ers and Celtics be a lock to surpass the Raptors in the near future?

        I know that certainly could happen (them surpassing us) and a rebuild may very well be in the near future, but how does a re-signing of a full-form Kawhi play into here? That could be the ticket to remain competitive and extend our window.

        Comment


        • Truth Teller wrote: View Post
          So we get Butler for free and as an expiring for no names?

          LOL easy decision.
          Yes, Butler for no names for one year, but guarantee to lose the top 5 NBA player you just signed that could alter the course of the franchise for years (in this hypothetical scenario). So basically "no names" now, but losing Kawhi Leonard for good.

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          • inthepaint wrote: View Post
            In a hypothetical, completely theoretical exercise (we'd have no way to know this for sure):

            Assuming it was known that it was possible to acquire Butler with just veteran role players, whose absence won't really hurt us now or in the future (i.e. no future picks or prospects, aside from maybe Wright in the deal), but it was also known that this would guarantee that neither him (Butler) nor Leonard would re-sign (would convert Leonard to a strict rental from whatever abstract chance there is now that he will re-up)

            Who here does it, and who doesn't?
            A one night stand that you're going to remember with a silly grin for the rest of your life? Sign me TF up.

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            • golden wrote: View Post
              A one night stand that you're going to remember with a silly grin for the rest of your life? Sign me TF up.
              Alrighty then, championship or bust!
              .
              .
              .
              (more like, finals appearance, then err ..tank, but whatever)

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              • Comment


                • I hated Danny Green when he would kill the Heat, but I like him now.

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                  • I don't know if this has already been posted.

                    http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/161...he-isnt-traded

                    This is some serious leverage. I think you offer Serge and Powell for Butler and Dieng. Straight up. If they balk, mention a trade swap. The wolves really don't have much to stand on. They have a high level player that doesn't want to play there, and now might not play for them at all. So if they don't trade him now, they don't get the little he will get them back. Powell could work nicely beside Teague as a better defender and Serge would also fit beside Towns.

                    Obviously Butler fits nicely into our starting lineup. Lowry, Butler, Kawhi, OG/Siakam, JV is just scary. Our Bench is still insane. I think Dieng and Munroe would just battle for backup Centre.

                    If one or both stars split after the season, we are just on the hook for Dieng for 2 more season but we get out from Ibaka and Powell's contract. Essentially, we only have Lowry and JV on the books for the following season. We then start a proper rebuild.

                    If say, Kawhi stays but Butler splits to play with Kyrie; then we have more cap space to go for someone else.

                    I think the only reason you wouldn't go for the trade as Raptors (Wolves options will obviously be more than just ours) is if Butler makes it clear that not only will he not play for us past this year, but he won't play at all. If he wants to end up on the team that he will ultimately resign with to get his true max contract then you just refocus on our already bright future.

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                    • Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                      • Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                        • inthepaint wrote: View Post
                          Alrighty then, championship or bust!
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          (more like, finals appearance, then err ..tank, but whatever)

                          More like championship..... then a huge bust. Good lord, you couldn't find a better going-out-with-a-bang celebration gif? lol.

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                          • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

                            Aha. That explains why Raptors media day was pushed back. Jimmy Buckets will be a Raptor by Sunday night.

                            Comment


                            • Shredder wrote: View Post
                              I don't know if this has already been posted.

                              http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/161...he-isnt-traded

                              This is some serious leverage. I think you offer Serge and Powell for Butler and Dieng. Straight up. If they balk, mention a trade swap. The wolves really don't have much to stand on. They have a high level player that doesn't want to play there, and now might not play for them at all. So if they don't trade him now, they don't get the little he will get them back. Powell could work nicely beside Teague as a better defender and Serge would also fit beside Towns.

                              Obviously Butler fits nicely into our starting lineup. Lowry, Butler, Kawhi, OG/Siakam, JV is just scary. Our Bench is still insane. I think Dieng and Munroe would just battle for backup Centre.

                              If one or both stars split after the season, we are just on the hook for Dieng for 2 more season but we get out from Ibaka and Powell's contract. Essentially, we only have Lowry and JV on the books for the following season. We then start a proper rebuild.

                              If say, Kawhi stays but Butler splits to play with Kyrie; then we have more cap space to go for someone else.

                              I think the only reason you wouldn't go for the trade as Raptors (Wolves options will obviously be more than just ours) is if Butler makes it clear that not only will he not play for us past this year, but he won't play at all. If he wants to end up on the team that he will ultimately resign with to get his true max contract then you just refocus on our already bright future.
                              A few things we learned last night.. and this Butler stuff is a mess:

                              - Butler will not attend training camp for the Wolves and asks for a trade
                              - His desire is still to go to LAC (first choice), NY and Brooklyn (this has not changed, as far as I know)
                              - Thibs wants win now players
                              - Thibs would rather hold on to Butler and not trade him
                              - Taylor (the Wolves owner) has taken over negotiations and wants to trade Butler
                              - Dieng has to be included in any Butler trade

                              Taylor stepping in is like Larry Tanenbaum stepping in for Masai. It just doesn't happen. Taylor is going to botch this so badly.

                              So this gives a team like Toronto (who's not in Butler's list of destinations) a chance to step in. But Masai/Webster would need to go in without giving up a majority of their depth (our bench was a reason why were so elite last year).

                              Norm+Serge for Butler+Dieng is a really big poo poo platter. You take that every day of the week. We get rid of our worst two contracts and take back one bad contract and a top 15 player in the NBA. Taylor may be an idiot but I don't think he'd do it. Although if he insists that Dieng be part of the trade package this package might win out.

                              The one thing NY, Brookly and LAC all have in common is that they want to hoard cap space. Dieng has a $16M stranglehold on the cap next year (and another year after that). This could screw up those teams chances in acquiring a second max player to play with Jimmy. So they may not want to make a deal for Dieng which could put them in the back seat in trade negotiations (again if Dieng has to be included).

                              Raptors can take on Dieng.. our plan B if Kawhi leaves is to dismantle the team and tank.. or tread water until 2020 when Giannis becomes a free agent (and hope he wants to come here). I'm sure Masai has a connection with Dieng through his BWB organization as well. We aren't hoarding cap space.. so taking on Dieng won't kill us. Besides if we offer Serge we'd need a backup center (or a tertiary one behind Monroe).

                              There are disadvantages with bringing in a guy like Jimmy though.

                              He's a guy that likes to have the ball in his hand. With Kawhi on the roster you pretty much want him to have the ball most of the time since he's better than Jimmy. So that could create some friction on the court. He's also not a great 3pt shooter, and Nurse loves shooters.

                              Jimmy also has this reputation of being a locker room killer. We heard stories from his days in Chicago and now Minny where he seems to openly trash his own teammates. KAT won't sign an extension until Jimmy is booted for example. Playing with Lowry and Kawhi might fix a lot of that but that can be an issue. Nurse is also still a rookie head coach, and having an ego like Jimmy to deal with might not be easy. He wants to go to LAC. So does Kawhi. They can collude together during the year and both jet at the same time.

                              On paper though having Kawhi, Lowry and Jimmy likes like it could be lethal. Defensively for sure.. A GSW/Toronto series could be a lot of fun.

                              I would make any Jimmy deal as long as it doesn't include Kawhi, OG, Siakam, JV, or any first round pick. I'm on the fence with Lowry since I think Fred is capable enough to be our starting guard. But I'd prefer not to. Fred can't be traded until January so he's pretty much safe since it seems Taylor wants to get this done early.

                              Comment


                              • Shredder wrote: View Post
                                I don't know if this has already been posted.

                                http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/161...he-isnt-traded

                                This is some serious leverage. I think you offer Serge and Powell for Butler and Dieng. Straight up. If they balk, mention a trade swap. The wolves really don't have much to stand on. They have a high level player that doesn't want to play there, and now might not play for them at all. So if they don't trade him now, they don't get the little he will get them back. Powell could work nicely beside Teague as a better defender and Serge would also fit beside Towns.

                                ...
                                The main priority and focus of this team should be to re-sign Kawhi Leonard. Every move we make now should that in the foreground. Initially, when Butler was still using the excuse of "wanting to win" to leave the t-wolves, it made sense to try to get him. We could offer that to him, thereby also increasing our chances or re-signing him.

                                However, that's not really what Bulter wants. After he came up with his short list of losing teams he wanted to go to (LA/NY teams), the charade was over and it became clear he just wanted out of Minny to play in one of those cities. Not much to do with "winning". He's a guy that, if here, would significantly decrease our chance of retaining Kawhi, because he would likely:

                                1. Create strife in the locker room, as he's done with his previous two teams, to force his way out since he doesn't want to be here. It would be other guys talking Toronto up and him putting it down. Kawhi needs to hear none of that. Butler has a very boisterous, loud personally, whereas Kawhi is quiet and reserved.

                                OR

                                2. He starts whispering to Kawhi from Day 1 how they should go the Clippers together next year.

                                That is mainly why I don't want him here. To me, the only way this makes sense is if we knew for sure (which we don't), that Kawhi will leave anyway. Then if we can get him for a year without mortgaging our future, we go for it and make a splash (albeit still likely not enough to beat GSW).

                                But we don't know that Kawhi will leave for sure. So I'd much rather groom and nurture that chance, get another high end FA that actaully wants to be here to play beside Kawhi, grow OG/FVV/Siakam, then really challenge GSW when they start to lose some of their edge in a couple of years.

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