Everything 2018 Off Season

[GOLDBLUM]

Maybe you should start a "Why Philadelphia is the most overrated team in the East" thread. Worked out pretty well last time

[magoon]

Philly isn't the most overrated team in the East, because that is always Milwaukee, but I think they've taken the "we need to be scared of them" crown from Washington in the Overrated Teams Derby.

Sure, Embiid and Simmons will be better; Fultz and Saric will be better. But there's a difference between "better" and "contender" and I don't know that Philly is there yet. Embiid got spanked in the playoffs and has trouble staying on the floor, Fultz and Simmons had no shot at all between them, and the team had to rely on Covington and a unit of shooters in the playoffs to stay in games and most of those shooters have left. Like, what's their crunch-time five? I think it's Simmons, Redick, Covington, Saric, Embiid, but only if Embiid starts playing serious defense otherwise he'll end up being a net negative (which is exactly what happened against Boston).

Like, this team has basically one real season under their belt. The best-case scenario for them is that they're the Durant/Westbrook Thunder, and the Thunder took three seasons to get to the Finals, which was the only time they made it there, and the Thunder had better players. I think people overestimate Philly quite a bit.

[Scraptor]

Like, this team has basically one real season under their belt.

That is why they shouldn't be underestimated, imo. They won more playoff games than we did with only one real season under their belt.

They're not going to beat the Warriors, but they and Boston are best-positioned among eastern conference teams to take advantage when the Warriors begin to fade, as their best players are young and have high ceilings.

We may not need to be scared of them this year, but if you're talking about which team will be more successful in the playoffs over the next five years, it's hard to see how we'll keep up with them unless Masai can bring in another star.

[DanH]

That is why they shouldn't be underestimated, imo. They won more playoff games than we did with only one real season under their belt.

They're not going to beat the Warriors, but they and Boston are best-positioned among eastern conference teams to take advantage when the Warriors begin to fade, as their best players are young and have high ceilings.

We may not need to be scared of them this year, but if you're talking about which team will be more successful in the playoffs over the next five years, it's hard to see how we'll keep up with them unless Masai can bring in another star.

To be fair, they also played worse teams than we did.

I don't think anyone on earth thinks that this core will be competing with Philly after the two year window closes and the core is mostly not here anymore unless there is a big move. Why would anyone think that?

[Scraptor]

To be fair, they also played worse teams than we did.

I don't think anyone on earth thinks that this core will be competing with Philly after the two year window closes and the core is mostly not here anymore unless there is a big move. Why would anyone think that?

Talking about which teams are overrated and underrated isn't as granular as separating the discussion into discrete time periods, like they're overrated this year but this year only.

When people say Philly has a bright future, they're looking at a longer time period as a whole, like five years. No one is saying this year is the year Philly wins it all. No one is saying they're "invincible" either.

So when DS says Philly and Boston are overrated, it's kind of missing the point.

[DanH]

Talking about which teams are overrated and underrated isn't as granular as separating the discussion into discrete time periods, like they're overrated this year but this year only.

When people say Philly has a bright future, they're looking at a longer time period as a whole, like five years. No one is saying this year is the year Philly wins it all. No one is saying they're "invincible" either.

So when DS says Philly and Boston are overrated, it's kind of missing the point.

It seems you are missing the point, as the introductory statement to this entire discussion was this:

So not sure if it was Magoon or InThePaint who lobbed one up that Philly is prolly more hype than substance this year

The scope of the statement is pretty clearly defined there.

[inthepaint]

It seems you are missing the point, as the introductory statement to this entire discussion was this:



The scope of the statement is pretty clearly defined there.

Precisely. Philly is a team brimming with unrealized potential, but the key word here is "unrealized". Potential can be either converted very quickly (heck maybe even this coming season), in a few years, or never at all (see, Bruno). But until that potential is converted and it's shown on the court, any talk around it is more expectation (aka hype) than substance.

As of the summer of 2018, their best player is brittle (haven't had the durabiltiy to play long regular seasons combined with deep playoff runs, and won't get any younger), and their star point guards can't shoot. They brought in two specialists last year (Ersan & Belinelli) to try to make up for that lack of shooting, but they shipped them our again this year. Still turning the ball over a lot. Like, that can certainly change, no doubt, but until then, I'll take Phily for what it is: A dangerous up-and-coming team that can cause a lot of trouble, but still with a lot ahead to put together and prove.

[S.R.]

Talking about which teams are overrated and underrated isn't as granular as separating the discussion into discrete time periods, like they're overrated this year but this year only.

When people say Philly has a bright future, they're looking at a longer time period as a whole, like five years. No one is saying this year is the year Philly wins it all. No one is saying they're "invincible" either.

So when DS says Philly and Boston are overrated, it's kind of missing the point.

Eh, a lot of people outside of this country think Boston and Philly are the two best teams in the East right now.

[Demographic Shift]

Talking about which teams are overrated and underrated isn't as granular as separating the discussion into discrete time periods, like they're overrated this year but this year only.

When people say Philly has a bright future, they're looking at a longer time period as a whole, like five years. No one is saying this year is the year Philly wins it all. No one is saying they're "invincible" either.

So when DS says Philly and Boston are overrated, it's kind of missing the point.

I guess that’s on me that I left it open for interpretation...
When I start in on who is the most over rated or over estimated or having their tires pumped a little excessively it’s for this coming season only.

So from my seat at the bar ... it’s my view that in this coming season, if it were to start with the personnel that Philly has under contract right now, they won’t finish ahead of the Raptors as their team won’t be as good as what the Raptors will roll out this season. No forward looking statements are inferred.

This season. Nothing to do with what might be in 2 seasons time. A lifetime in sports. That’s a very different discussion

Look forward to the discussion when the most over estimated thread goes up. Still dust to settle before training camp opens.

[Demographic Shift]

Eh, a lot of people outside of this country think Boston and Philly are the two best teams in the East right now.

Which makes it that much sweeter when the Raps.. warts and all... win.

I get the oversight. Boston and Philly are big time Eastern markets and have a long history in the league. Its like the Leafs. Even when they suck they dominate media coverage. When the get good and make some waves with good young players... Its a tsunami of coverage.

Its the same for Boston and Philly in the NBA and for the main stream NBA media. They both have a lot of good young players and they are relevant which means they will dominate the discussion.

To break that trend the Raptors are going to have to win the ECF and get to the finals. Even then... they would be picked to finish 4th in the following year. It is what it is.

[planetmars]

To me it's pretty straightforward. If the 76ers can get Kawhi than they are better than the Raptors this year (ie, the 2018-2019 season). If they don't than the Raptors will be better.

By better I mean regular season standings since that's easier to determine. We lose a star we have depth to recover. If the 76ers do they don't. So I'm taking that into consideration as well.

Playoffs are harder to test the "better" argument unless both teams face each other. And just going farther in the playoffs can help an argument it can't be definitive since matchups / brackets can play a role into how far someone can go.

Right now I have:

1) Boston
2) Toronto
3) Milwaukee
4) Philly

I love that the Bucks got Lopez.. that makes them better than Philly and a lot closer to Toronto than Philly would (if they didn't get Kawhi). Brook is not the guy he used to be.. but the Bucks biggest weakness from last season has been coaching and their big man. They fixed both this summer.

[planetmars]

Indiana is going to be tough as well. They've had a solid off season. But have them 5th below those 4 teams.

[KeonClark]

Yeah people are sleeping on Milwaukee with a good coach. They have the best player in the east, and 3 or 4 real good pieces around him. Time to put it together

[white men can't jump]

Yeah people are sleeping on Milwaukee with a good coach. They have the best player in the east, and 3 or 4 real good pieces around him. Time to put it together

Feel like people have been saying this kind of thing about Milwaukee for the last 30 years

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[DanH]

Feel like people have been saying this kind of thing about Milwaukee for the last 30 years

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Yeah, Bud will have to prove he can make more of that roster before I'm too worried about them.