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  • Jclaw wrote: View Post
    Whether you’re considering this a one year rental or an audition, unfortunately, I don’t think the Paul George scenario applies. A couple of day before he signed, some agent on the radio said he probably would because first you take the max salary and then if it doesn’t work, you can dictate where you go. Kawhi has already declined a max salary from the Spurs. People also thought PG would leave for the Lakers. But at the time he signed, he would have been the first one in the pool (a big risk). Next year, Kawhi will know Lebron is there. That’s tough to turn down. Hopefully there’s a world where this all works for the best. It’s made a dull basketball sumner a bit more interesting.
    Plus Paul George got to play with Russ Westbrook and loved it. Who's going to be the running mate that makes Kawhi want to re-sign in Toronto?
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    • If you were Kawhi. On the one side there's Lebron James - the best player of his generation (at least) - waiting in sunny California, your hometown L.A. - on the other side there's Kyle Lowry in Toronto. I'm saying nothing against Toronto, but... what would you choose?

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      • gk17 wrote: View Post
        If you were Kawhi. On the one side there's Lebron James - the best player of his generation (at least) - waiting in sunny California, your hometown L.A. - on the other side there's Kyle Lowry in Toronto. I'm saying nothing against Toronto, but... what would you choose?
        OKC with Westbrook or California with Lebron? There is more to decisions than something so simple.

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        • Jclaw wrote: View Post
          Whether you’re considering this a one year rental or an audition, unfortunately, I don’t think the Paul George scenario applies. A couple of day before he signed, some agent on the radio said he probably would because first you take the max salary and then if it doesn’t work, you can dictate where you go. Kawhi has already declined a max salary from the Spurs. People also thought PG would leave for the Lakers. But at the time he signed, he would have been the first one in the pool (a big risk). Next year, Kawhi will know Lebron is there. That’s tough to turn down. Hopefully there’s a world where this all works for the best. It’s made a dull basketball sumner a bit more interesting.
          I think people are undervaluing holding Kawhi's Bird rights. Kawhi declined a deal from the Spurs because that bridge is burned. Let's see how he feels after a full year of getting finessed by Masai.

          Also that Lakers team looks pretty crappy and LeBron will be another year older. I think the possibilities are a lot more fluid if we acquire Kawhi than if we just come back with same group for another year.

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          • A.I wrote: View Post
            OKC with Westbrook or California with Lebron? There is more to decisions than something so simple.
            You can't compare it. Paul George had to make his decision first - there was (and there is) no room for Lebron, Kawhi & him. So he made the best business-decision. Sure, there is also a small chance, that the Lakers prefer an other FA (Butler, Durant?) over Kawhi in 2019. Who knows?

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            • jimmie wrote: View Post
              Because I don't believe any signs point to any possibility of him staying in Toronto, and if he leaves and you've traded Poeltl, Wright and OG to get him, and no longer have any All Stars on your roster (Lowry's old and gone, JV is gone, DD has been traded) then no top-tier FA is going to sign here in 2021.

              Of course everything hinges on Leonard staying in Toronto. If he does that, then almost any package makes sense. It's just the least likely of all possible outcomes in this situation, and the negative effect of gutting Toronto's excellent bench is too much risk in that case, given that Leonard also doesn't markedly improve the chances of a championship in the next year or two.
              I think most people agree that including OG is too much for a rental. Personally I don't think a combination of Delon, Poeltl, and/or 2019 pick combined with either Serge (I don't think that would work for Spurs; but if it did I'd jump at that) or Demar (I would hate to loose such a loyal player, but to have the opportunity to have Kawhi I think you do it). Obviously you try to get him for the least amount of assets.

              If it doesn't work with him, or even it does and he chooses to split, you are just shortening the 2 year window to 1. I don't think that after two more years of not winning in the playoffs will constitute resigning all our current stars. So if/when that happens, we could see Demar leave for nothing but cap space.

              So do we take the chance that changing our coach, with the exact same team, will get us further in the playoffs for the next two years, or do we swing for the fences (potentially shorting our "winning window" to a year) and sign a generational talent like Kawhi?

              For me personally I think you do it. I, unlike a lot of people here, like Demar, and believe he will continue to get better each year, and maybe defence is his next skill. Nonetheless, I don't believe the he will ever be better than a healthy Kawhi.

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              • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                One thing that brings me back to earth with a sad reality that my man jimmie up here pointed out during his post

                The 59 win Toronto Raptors could run it back, upgrade with a top 5 player in Kawhi, and our ceiling for 2019 does not change one bit.

                As of right now our ceiling is win the East and get thumped in the finals. With Kawhi, our ceiling is win the East and..maybe win 1 game in the finals?

                Depressing
                You hope to re-sign Kawhi and extend the Raptors' window of contention past GS's peak. They have some contracts coming up in the next couple of seasons and they're not going to be able to keep that roster together perpetually.

                If the Raptors can re-sign Kawhi and hold onto some of their key young guys, this would be a roster with a long future. Have to take the gamble that you might pull that off.
                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                • gk17 wrote: View Post
                  If you were Kawhi. On the one side there's Lebron James - the best player of his generation (at least) - waiting in sunny California, your hometown L.A. - on the other side there's Kyle Lowry in Toronto. I'm saying nothing against Toronto, but... what would you choose?
                  There have already been rumours that LeBron joining the Lakers may have hurt their chances of getting Kawhi because he doesn't want to be overshadowed by LeBron. And the Clippers ain't exactly moving in a positive direction.

                  In Toronto he would unquestionably be the franchise player we continue to build around.

                  Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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                  • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                    I think people are undervaluing holding Kawhi's Bird rights. Kawhi declined a deal from the Spurs because that bridge is burned. Let's see how he feels after a full year of getting finessed by Masai.

                    Also that Lakers team looks pretty crappy and LeBron will be another year older. I think the possibilities are a lot more fluid if we acquire Kawhi than if we just come back with same group for another year.
                    Yes. And another way to look at it is this: if we make the finals with Leonard, does he leave a still pretty young team that just made the finals (with him as the top dog), or does he go to the Lakers to play second-man next to an aging Lebron battling the West meat grinder?

                    Maybe it's the latter, but I don't think after a year it'd be that clear cut. And even if he bolts, the finals appearance will boost the value of everyone on the team as future assets, helping us with the rebuild much more so than if he wasn't here and we didn't make the finals.

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                    • jimmie wrote: View Post
                      Except this isn't the only possible future. And I trust MU has a plan. I don't think he's a GM who ever considers a full rebuild.

                      Lowry's off the books with Ibaka and JV for the 2020 offseason. Derozan comes off the books in 2021. If no major moves are made between now and then, they've got cap space to go after whoever they want. They may need a few bucks for Fred and Delon if they want to keep them, but there's still plenty in the tank for a max FA or even two, with OG, Siakam and Poeltl still in the fold.

                      FAs in 2021: Giannis, KD, Anthony Davis, Lillard, McCollum, Beal, Gobert, Drummond, Oladipo...

                      Let's not restrict the possibilities to Leonard or tank.
                      There's a lot of underlying premises in many of the posts in the last couple of pages. The false choice you point out above is one of them.....

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                      • A.I wrote: View Post
                        He is a top 5 player when healthy.

                        You can argue top 3. Lebron, KD and Kawhi.
                        This is neither here nor there, but I have LeBron 1 and curry 2, for 3 or 4 years running.
                        9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                        • jimmie wrote: View Post
                          Because I don't believe any signs point to any possibility of him staying in Toronto, and if he leaves and you've traded Poeltl, Wright and OG to get him, and no longer have any All Stars on your roster (Lowry's old and gone, JV is gone, DD has been traded) then no top-tier FA is going to sign here in 2021.

                          Of course everything hinges on Leonard staying in Toronto. If he does that, then almost any package makes sense. It's just the least likely of all possible outcomes in this situation, and the negative effect of gutting Toronto's excellent bench is too much risk in that case, given that Leonard also doesn't markedly improve the chances of a championship in the next year or two.
                          Again, which is why Toronto can't really do this deal without some assurance Leonard will stay on, which also makes it trickier given what just happened in SA: how good is Leonard's word?

                          You can absolutely rationalize a smaller trade package for him as a mere rental and a wing and a prayer re-signing but that ignores everything we know about how Ujiri operates.

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                          • The raptors have never had an all world superstar. Vince wasn't, and wasn't actually all that close. Kawhi at his best is very much that.
                            9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                            • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                              One thing that brings me back to earth with a sad reality that my man jimmie up here pointed out during his post

                              The 59 win Toronto Raptors could run it back, upgrade with a top 5 player in Kawhi, and our ceiling for 2019 does not change one bit.

                              As of right now our ceiling is win the East and get thumped in the finals. With Kawhi, our ceiling is win the East and..maybe win 1 game in the finals?

                              Depressing
                              Our ceiling doesn't change but our floor does. With Kawhi I like our chances against any Eastern team
                              Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                              • Next thing is for drake to be spotted at a strip club with Kawhi’s uncle. Gotta wine and dine that guy now.

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