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  • Overall who has the more talented team? Toronto or Cleveland... be honest. Lebron is the best player in the league. Kevin Love is better than DeMar or Lowry. They have consistent 3 point threats in Smith and Korver. George Hill is a good offensive point guard and a great defensive guard. Add in Tristan and Jeff Green playing out of their minds.

    The greatest disappointment of this series is the effort from the Raptors...they gave up after game one. It was said in the press conference today that game 1 was a huge hit. The Pacers had game 5 stolen from them from the officials on that bogus goaltending call and they came back and blew out the Cavs in game 6.

    I really think something has to change this offseason, and I don't agree with the tanking approach. I think we have been cellar dwellers long enough. Having a consistently successful franchise (even if it is getting beaten in the playoffs)will get us free agents in the future.

    I think 90% of us wanted JV gone last offseason, that tune has changed... but I think it's time to cash in on his value, Jakob is waiting.

    If we can move Serg., then do it.

    I'm still unsure about Kyle and DeMar... it really depends what we are getting back.

    Comment


    • Deems wrote: View Post
      I'm buying a plot of land in flatland as we speak, who wants some good ol' corn moonshine?
      Anyone old enough to remember rolling old rye or rum barrels around in the basement? Good times.

      Comment


      • saints91 wrote: View Post
        Overall who has the more talented team? Toronto or Cleveland... be honest. Lebron is the best player in the league. Kevin Love is better than DeMar or Lowry. They have consistent 3 point threats in Smith and Korver. George Hill is a good offensive point guard and a great defensive guard. Add in Tristan and Jeff Green playing out of their minds.

        The greatest disappointment of this series is the effort from the Raptors...they gave up after game one. It was said in the press conference today that game 1 was a huge hit. The Pacers had game 5 stolen from them from the officials on that bogus goaltending call and they came back and blew out the Cavs in game 6.

        I really think something has to change this offseason, and I don't agree with the tanking approach. I think we have been cellar dwellers long enough. Having a consistently successful franchise (even if it is getting beaten in the playoffs)will get us free agents in the future.

        I think 90% of us wanted JV gone last offseason, that tune has changed... but I think it's time to cash in on his value, Jakob is waiting.

        If we can move Serg., then do it.

        I'm still unsure about Kyle and DeMar... it really depends what we are getting back.
        I don't disagree with most here but I'm not sure at all yet that "Jakob is waiting"
        He looked way over matched, out muscled and out worked long before the playoffs began. Worse, he seemed to have given up.
        Not sure if it's wear and tear on that body during a long season or he got uber scared of the constant foul calls he got but he was brutal late at least to what I thought his potential was

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        • is it weird that i want to build around OG??? and random question... not that im super into a wiggins trade (he is similar to derozan but i think he will end up being better). Do you think that getting wiggins for a derozan makes us better?

          I think if you get someone like wiggins who at least has all the tools to play defence and has the tools to be an all star would be interesting. plus the fact that he is unhappy and all that... and it may raise our ceiling.

          Comment


          • I honestly dont think the Raptors "gave up" until the 2nd half of game 4.

            But the moment they gave up that 4th quarter lead in Game 1, they were scared to lose. And that tentativeness is what plagued them the rest of the way.

            Comment


            • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
              is it weird that i want to build around OG??? and random question... not that im super into a wiggins trade (he is similar to derozan but i think he will end up being better). Do you think that getting wiggins for a derozan makes us better?

              I think if you get someone like wiggins who at least has all the tools to play defence and has the tools to be an all star would be interesting. plus the fact that he is unhappy and all that... and it may raise our ceiling.
              Simply swapping Wiggins for DeRozan, while keeping everything else the same, likely makes us a bit worse.

              But if the goal over the next few years is to maintain a playoff team, while getting younger and more talented, then it fits the plan. But it doesn't end with Wiggins. Need to continue to accumulate assets.

              Comment


              • What's up with all the Wiggins love? I don't want him, he's not a good shooter or defender, he's a worse DeMar.

                Trade DeMar for players who have shooting or defending skills already.

                Kuzma, Ingram (if possible at all), Josh Richardson, Gary Harris, LaVine, Porter/Beal, Taurean Prince/DeAndre Bembry, + anyone else with potential and valuable past performance in these skills.
                Last edited by Mindlessness; Wed May 9, 2018, 06:42 PM.

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                • I just want a draft pick

                  Comment





                  • Jerry with subliminal messages (jk)
                    Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                    • MixxAOR wrote: View Post



                      Jerry with subliminal messages (jk)
                      I would take him as coach
                      9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                      • a few points:

                        1. You can't both praise Masai for keeping it close to the vest with trade talk and draft talk, making sure the team never leaks info to the press, etc. and then complain that he doesn't bare his soul in the postseason presser and explain his entire next-steps strategy. Masai believes in making sure people outside the organization know as little as possible, which has always been the right move.

                        2. I will say this again: if you are complaining about "stagnation" with this team, you're a fool. The team has consistently gotten better over the years and improved in respects every year; every year we get the "they've hit a wall" complaint and every year Masai has made major steps to improve our overall position and level of talent while simultaneously stocking the roster with as many assets as possible. These are two things which are both hard to do and also are two things which often work at cross-purposes and he has still done it.

                        3. Masai's next hurdle is the biggest one, which is simple: you can't win in the NBA without a star and it's nearly impossible to get a star. You need to be both smart AND lucky in the draft while being bad enough to get the high picks necessary to get a star, or be able to trade/sign for a disgruntled star when they become available. Masai clearly doesn't want to take the first route, because Toronto needs respect and more tanking wasn't going to ever manage that, and what's more if we'd tanked the last few years - how many genuine definitely-a-star players have come out of the draft since Masai's first pick in 2014, again? At this point the only players drafted since 2014 who are inarguably going to be stars are Joel Embiid, Karl Anthony-Towns, Donovan Mitchell and Ben Simmons. That's four players you can truly build a team around - what Toronto needs - in four years. I don't have a problem with tanking for draft picks, but it's what you do when you're getting ready to bottom out, not when the team can win 50+ games a year consistently for years.

                        The hit rate for stars via the draft is really low, and while I think Masai is a superb drafter and scout he also believes in winning and keeping your franchise healthy. So he went the other way, trying to develop assets within so he has the trade material necessary to go after a disgruntled star when one appears, trying to have the core of talent necessary to attract a star player. Why do you think Masai made sure Kyle/DeMar/Ibaka's contracts all end in 2020? Because Anthony Davis is a free agent that year, as is Draymond Green and Gordon Hayward, with Giannis a free agent the year following.

                        Masai knows what he's doing better than anybody on this board. He's demonstrated that repeatedly.

                        Comment


                        • Mindlessness wrote: View Post
                          What's up with all the Wiggins love? I don't want him, he's not a goodshhoter or defender, he's a worse DeMar.

                          Trade DeMar for players who have shooting or defending skills already.

                          Kuzma, Ingram (if possible at all), Josh Richardson, Gary Harris, LaVine, Porter/Beal, Taurean Prince/DeAndre Bembry, + anyone else with potential and valuable past performance in these skills.
                          I actually dont like wiggins ... i'd rather trade for ingram if we make a trade and then have him play the two with og at the 3 that would be nutty. I just dont think they do it.


                          I think wiggins is lazy and won't ever realize his potential because of his work ethic...

                          Comment


                          • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                            Simply swapping Wiggins for DeRozan, while keeping everything else the same, likely makes us a bit worse.

                            But if the goal over the next few years is to maintain a playoff team, while getting younger and more talented, then it fits the plan. But it doesn't end with Wiggins. Need to continue to accumulate assets.
                            but how.... we can't really accumulate assets without trading our young guys or getting worse by trading derozan... we could try to trade second rounders and attempt to obtain a first rounded... but this draft isn't the right draft to do it unless you are going into the lottery.

                            Comment


                            • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                              If this was anyone other than Masai Ujiri this would be summarized as a laundry list of excuses and random ramblings. I'm curious to see how the media writes this up. Casey was far more clear and composed.

                              Oh well. I guess all we can do is hope for the best.
                              This is how pretty much all of these pressers go. Does anyone actually think they are going to learn anything? These guys are taught and trained not to tell you anything. Or at least not anything that matters.

                              Comment


                              • magoon wrote: View Post
                                a few points:

                                1. You can't both praise Masai for keeping it close to the vest with trade talk and draft talk, making sure the team never leaks info to the press, etc. and then complain that he doesn't bare his soul in the postseason presser and explain his entire next-steps strategy. Masai believes in making sure people outside the organization know as little as possible, which has always been the right move.

                                2. I will say this again: if you are complaining about "stagnation" with this team, you're a fool. The team has consistently gotten better over the years and improved in respects every year; every year we get the "they've hit a wall" complaint and every year Masai has made major steps to improve our overall position and level of talent while simultaneously stocking the roster with as many assets as possible. These are two things which are both hard to do and also are two things which often work at cross-purposes and he has still done it.

                                3. Masai's next hurdle is the biggest one, which is simple: you can't win in the NBA without a star and it's nearly impossible to get a star. You need to be both smart AND lucky in the draft while being bad enough to get the high picks necessary to get a star, or be able to trade/sign for a disgruntled star when they become available. Masai clearly doesn't want to take the first route, because Toronto needs respect and more tanking wasn't going to ever manage that, and what's more if we'd tanked the last few years - how many genuine definitely-a-star players have come out of the draft since Masai's first pick in 2014, again? At this point the only players drafted since 2014 who are inarguably going to be stars are Joel Embiid, Karl Anthony-Towns, Donovan Mitchell and Ben Simmons. That's four players you can truly build a team around - what Toronto needs - in four years. I don't have a problem with tanking for draft picks, but it's what you do when you're getting ready to bottom out, not when the team can win 50+ games a year consistently for years.

                                The hit rate for stars via the draft is really low, and while I think Masai is a superb drafter and scout he also believes in winning and keeping your franchise healthy. So he went the other way, trying to develop assets within so he has the trade material necessary to go after a disgruntled star when one appears, trying to have the core of talent necessary to attract a star player. Why do you think Masai made sure Kyle/DeMar/Ibaka's contracts all end in 2020? Because Anthony Davis is a free agent that year, as is Draymond Green and Gordon Hayward, with Giannis a free agent the year following.

                                Masai knows what he's doing better than anybody on this board. He's demonstrated that repeatedly.
                                yeah i agree people are very impatient. Personally I would stay the course we signed our current core for 2 more years. At that point we will have a TON of cap space. The biggest mistake outside of bruno... was giving norm the contract early but ... you never know what would have happened.. hindsight is always 20/20 and norm can improve next year. and probably will.


                                I also think if we look our development of the young guys has been amazing this year overall. the fact that we could rely on those guys in the playoffs speaks volumes.. the fact that we found minutes for literally everyone and we weren't a shitty team means we developed our guys and put them in situations.. every single loss means we have gotten better every year. I can see us still being a top 4 or 3 team next year and just improving.


                                I think everyone on the team is disappointed but i am personally against blowing it up.... Especially looking at the current itme line of teams.. We are a bit late on the blowing it up point.. We would be trying to be worse than teams like Atlanta and phoenix and sac ... and im sure others even dallas.... just to get into the lottery.

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