Everything 2018 Off Season

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I'm not sure this is true. There just aren't that many trade destinations for DeMar, because of all the reasons that we're all open to the Raptors trading him, and the #4 pick in a loaded draft is pretty good value.

Just patently false. There are tons of teams in the league that would want, and give up assets for a wing in his prime who can give them 25-5-5. There are teams that already have role players (or just don't have any good players) who would kill for a guy who can do that. The reasons people here want to trade him vary. In my case it's because I just generally want to rebuild. Others want to trade him because they think his lack of 3+D, combined with the fact that he's not a true alpha-dog on offense make him detrimental to the team's playoff success in his current role.

DeMar for Parsons + 4th pick is definitely a tanking trade though. Makes the team worse, and good teams don't pay 20M a year to guys like Parsons. It's also not a particularly good tanking trade unless we know FOR SURE there's a superstar guy we can get at 4.

[LJ2]

What's the Parsons contract like, and is he injured or just not playing well?

[Barolt]

Just patently false. There are tons of teams in the league that would want, and give up assets for a wing in his prime who can give them 25-5-5. There are teams that already have role players (or just don't have any good players) who would kill for a guy who can do that. The reasons people here want to trade him vary. In my case it's because I just generally want to rebuild. Others want to trade him because they think his lack of 3+D, combined with the fact that he's not a true alpha-dog on offense make him detrimental to the team's playoff success in his current role.

DeMar for Parsons + 4th pick is definitely a tanking trade though. Makes the team worse, and good teams don't pay 20M a year to guys like Parsons. It's also not a particularly good tanking trade unless we know FOR SURE there's a superstar guy we can get at 4.

There really aren't.

DeMar can't function as an off-ball player frequently, because he's not a catch and shoot guy, so you can't play him on a team with other ball-dominant stars, because he wouldn't work as a complimentary guy. That rules out a bunch of teams.

DeMar isn't a good defender, so you have to surround him with good defenders, and can't pair him with another star who struggles defensively. That rules out a bunch of teams.

There are a lot of things about DeMar's flaws that limits the Raptors trading partners here. It's all the reasons that the Raptors should be looking to trade him, those are the reasons that limit his trade returns, because other teams watch the games too.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

What if we trade Derozan to Clippers for Gallinari, Beverley plus 2 of their first rounders. They are mid first round.

Gallo brings a lot of the same problems as DD defensively without being as good on offense (besides being a better shooter) he also can basically only play 3/4 where we have OG/Ibaka already.

Beverley is nice defensively but he's a point guard, where is he gonna get minutes on this team?

Even for a retool trade this isn't great imo. I'd rather get Avery Bradley in a sign and trade with those picks than those 2.

[MixxAOR]

What's the Parsons contract like, and is he injured or just not playing well?

He'll play one game and miss 10.

[The Great One]

There really aren't.

DeMar can't function as an off-ball player frequently, because he's not a catch and shoot guy, so you can't play him on a team with other ball-dominant stars, because he wouldn't work as a complimentary guy. That rules out a bunch of teams.

DeMar isn't a good defender, so you have to surround him with good defenders, and can't pair him with another star who struggles defensively. That rules out a bunch of teams.

There are a lot of things about DeMar's flaws that limits the Raptors trading partners here. It's all the reasons that the Raptors should be looking to trade him, those are the reasons that limit his trade returns, because other teams watch the games too.

So basically you're saying he's trash. But you think the Raptors can get the #4 overall pick for him?

[The Great One]

Just patently false. There are tons of teams in the league that would want, and give up assets for a wing in his prime who can give them 25-5-5. There are teams that already have role players (or just don't have any good players) who would kill for a guy who can do that. The reasons people here want to trade him vary. In my case it's because I just generally want to rebuild. Others want to trade him because they think his lack of 3+D, combined with the fact that he's not a true alpha-dog on offense make him detrimental to the team's playoff success in his current role.

DeMar for Parsons + 4th pick is definitely a tanking trade though. Makes the team worse, and good teams don't pay 20M a year to guys like Parsons. It's also not a particularly good tanking trade unless we know FOR SURE there's a superstar guy we can get at 4.

Exactly

[Barolt]

So basically you're saying he's trash. But you think the Raptors can get the #4 overall pick for him?

I'm not saying he's trash - I'm saying he has limitations.

He's also a very good on-ball player and a shot creator, and there are teams who badly need a guy who can do that(like the Raptors did for the last few years, before these young guys developed!). Memphis needs that.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Barolt what would be your intentions after making that trade?

Would you follow that up by moving Lowry and then Ibaka/JV if possible as well?

Or would the idea be to try to win?

Because whether you value DeMar highly or not that deal certainly doesn't make us better next season. So I would hope that your intention is the former (in which case it's an ok but not ideal trade).

[S.R.]

Hey who remembers that 2017-18 NBA season where DeMar DeRozan and Damian Lillard spent much of it in top-10 MVP ladders (http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder)? Good times, now we know these guys both suck basketballs and Masai will have to trade the craptastic DeRozan for something like Joakim Noah's slouchy hat and two towel girls. May have to throw in the Raptor's 2025 1st to get the second towel girl.

[Bonus Jonas]

No thanks on that Gallo trade.

Bradley and their 2 1sts is more intriguing, but doesn’t solve our problem.

Our goal should be a championship, to get that we need superstars.

Trading away one of our biggest assets for an above average player and 2 late lottery picks is not a good way of landing superstar talent. Yes you can luck into a Donovan Mitchell, but the odds are very low, and if you happen to miss on that you are now strapped with a missed opportunity.

[Bonus Jonas]

Throw San Antonio the bag for Kawhi, risk a trade for a young player with superstar potential, or stick with what we have.

[The Great One]

This draft is also not as loaded as last year. This year's draft imo is a crapshoot after the top 3.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

No thanks on that Gallo trade.

Bradley and their 2 1sts is more intriguing, but doesn’t solve our problem.

Our goal should be a championship, to get that we need superstars.

Trading away one of our biggest assets for an above average player and 2 late lottery picks is not a good way of landing superstar talent. Yes you can luck into a Donovan Mitchell, but the odds are very low, and if you happen to miss on that you are now strapped with a missed opportunity.

This is why the "retool" route is fucking stupid to me.

If you can't parlay DeMar+ ___ for a superstar then blow it up.

[Other Scott]

I'm not sure this is true. There just aren't that many trade destinations for DeMar, because of all the reasons that we're all open to the Raptors trading him, and the #4 pick in a loaded draft is pretty good value.

That's not the return though. It's not DeMar for the #4 pick straight up - it's DeMar for the #4 pick plus 50M dollars of dead money. In the same way that the number 4 pick has a lot of positive value, that Chandler Parsons contract has a lot of negative value to ownership.

Not to you and me, because it's not our money and the team isn't going to have cap space in the next two years regardless, but this is where ownership steps in and says, "no, we aren't putting our team in the tax for a lesser team than we had last year and paying like 60M in dead money (once you include the tax hit) just to get a number 4 pick in a draft, which on average produces an average NBA starter."

Yes, from a pure basketball perspective, you can disregard Parsons completely and it's DeRozan for the number 4 pick. From a financial ownership perspective, not even close.