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  • magoon wrote: View Post
    Look, I know everybody is depressed right now, but you're suggesting trading a four-time All-Star who's probably going to be All-NBA for the second year in a row for literally the worst contract in the entire league and a high lottery pick. That is fucking insane.
    I was just musing a realistic way to get a top 5 pick now that the lottery is done. To make the money work we'd have to take back Parsons.

    The OG and Jackson Jr. combo would be a defensive powerhouse for the next decade. Is that worth 2 years of overpaying Parsons to come off the bench? Tough call for sure.

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    • Might as well check out the other options.

      The Suns and Kings aren't good fits because they already have young promising SGs.

      The Hawks could be a trade partner at #3. Derozan would give them a true lead scorer and fits their roster better than Bagley or Jackson Jr. since they already have Collins at PF.

      He'd also be the biggest star they've had since Dominique Wilkins. That's important for a team that struggles to put butts in seats.

      Derozan for the 3rd pick, Kent Bazemore, and Miles Plumlee.

      Still has a crap contract (Plumlee) but it's a lot cheaper than Parsons. Bazemore is overpaid but at least he's serviceable and can compete with Powell for the starting SG spot.
      Last edited by Primer; Tue May 15, 2018, 10:31 PM.

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      • Dallas could also be an option. They need an upgrade at SG and a star to carry the team post Dirk era. I don't think they'll get that at the 5th pick.

        Derozan for the 5th pick and Wesley Matthews.

        Mathews contract only has 1 season left and he isn't useless as a player. He'd compete with Powell for the starting SG spot.

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        • Primer wrote: View Post
          Dallas could also be an option. They need an upgrade at SG and a star to carry the team post Dirk era. I don't think they'll get that at the 5th pick.

          Derozan for the 5th pick and Wesley Matthews.

          Mathews contract only has 1 season left and he isn't useless as a player. He'd compete with Powell for the starting SG spot.
          That deal was suggested by ESPN. Maybe it has some legs. I wonder if Mavs would do it though
          Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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          • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
            That deal was suggested by ESPN. Maybe it has some legs. I wonder if Mavs would do it though
            Would depend on how enamored they are with the players available at 5. I don't think getting DD for the 5th pick would be hard to sell to their fanbase.

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            • I like that Bridges kid from Nova. Currently projected to go 10th to Philly via NBAdraft.net.. and 9th to NY via CBS and tankathon.com.

              Has a silky smooth shot, and looks like he can actually play defense. If we get the 5th pick from Dallas that would be my guy. Although we could probably even move down from there.

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              • What did I miss, how are we getting the 5th pick from Dallas? Lottery picks are like gold, I can't see ones that high being traded for anything Toronto can offer. And Dallas seems to have absolutely no direction on what they want to do with that team. They look like they are perfectly happy playing the draft lottery game.

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                • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                  What did I miss, how are we getting the 5th pick from Dallas? Lottery picks are like gold, I can't see ones that high being traded for anything Toronto can offer. And Dallas seems to have absolutely no direction on what they want to do with that team. They look like they are perfectly happy playing the draft lottery game.
                  Nothing you missed. Just trying to see if we could get into the lottery/draft by trading DeMar. ESPN came up with some DeMar trade ideas and one was DeMar to Dallas for Wes Matthews and their draft pick (which ended up 5th).

                  Dallas dropped in the lottery.. and some of us are hoping that they might consider trading it for an all-star like DeMar.

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                  • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                    What did I miss, how are we getting the 5th pick from Dallas? Lottery picks are like gold, I can't see ones that high being traded for anything Toronto can offer. And Dallas seems to have absolutely no direction on what they want to do with that team. They look like they are perfectly happy playing the draft lottery game.
                    Okay, look.

                    Kyrie Irving was worth a certain lottery pick (and one most expected then to be top five) plus Isaiah Thomas and Jae Crowder, which was considered a major haul at the time for an unhappy player who wanted out (before Isaiah's injury issues became a bigger issue and before it was revealed that Crowder only plays well in a system). Eric Bledsoe netted a mildly protected first, a second and Greg Monroe's expiring deal (and Monroe himself had value, but Phoenix couldn't move him). Blake Griffin, who hasn't played more than 70 games since 2014 and who has an insane contract, cost the Pistons a first, a second, Avery Bradley and Tobias Harris. Freaking Nikola Mirotic cost a protected first. The Bulls traded Jimmy Butler for nine spots up in the draft, into the lottery, PLUS Zach LaVine PLUS Kris Dunn. Kevin Love was worth the #1 pick overall. And so forth.

                    Seriously, do you guys pay attention to basketball trades at all? Other fans might overvalue Raptors trade assets, but you're acting like DeMar and Kyle are burdens to bear rather than multiple-time All-Stars who WILL be in demand in the trade market as teams trying to compete look for upgrades. Any potential trade for them will be one where Masai gets equivalent value or better, because Masai always wants to win the trade and usually does, and the equivalent value for two guys who can both be at least third stars on your team, possibly second stars, is going to be a hell of a lot.

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                    • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                      What did I miss, how are we getting the 5th pick from Dallas? Lottery picks are like gold, I can't see ones that high being traded for anything Toronto can offer. And Dallas seems to have absolutely no direction on what they want to do with that team. They look like they are perfectly happy playing the draft lottery game.
                      Lottery picks are gold until they are used to pick a player. Like 9th pick in a draft sounds sexy but then you realize Raps drafted Jacob Poeltl with it and now it's ok-ish asset
                      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                      • magoon wrote: View Post
                        Okay, look.

                        Kyrie Irving was worth a certain lottery pick (and one most expected then to be top five) plus Isaiah Thomas and Jae Crowder, which was considered a major haul at the time for an unhappy player who wanted out (before Isaiah's injury issues became a bigger issue and before it was revealed that Crowder only plays well in a system). Eric Bledsoe netted a mildly protected first, a second and Greg Monroe's expiring deal (and Monroe himself had value, but Phoenix couldn't move him). Blake Griffin, who hasn't played more than 70 games since 2014 and who has an insane contract, cost the Pistons a first, a second, Avery Bradley and Tobias Harris. Freaking Nikola Mirotic cost a protected first. The Bulls traded Jimmy Butler for nine spots up in the draft, into the lottery, PLUS Zach LaVine PLUS Kris Dunn. Kevin Love was worth the #1 pick overall. And so forth.

                        Seriously, do you guys pay attention to basketball trades at all? Other fans might overvalue Raptors trade assets, but you're acting like DeMar and Kyle are burdens to bear rather than multiple-time All-Stars who WILL be in demand in the trade market as teams trying to compete look for upgrades. Any potential trade for them will be one where Masai gets equivalent value or better, because Masai always wants to win the trade and usually does, and the equivalent value for two guys who can both be at least third stars on your team, possibly second stars, is going to be a hell of a lot.
                        Yup. Only Ibaka would really be hard to trade and in his case you can just take back a bad contract from a near/playoff team who needs a PF and probably get a pick or prospect as well.

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                        • magoon wrote: View Post
                          Okay, look.

                          Kyrie Irving was worth a certain lottery pick (and one most expected then to be top five) plus Isaiah Thomas and Jae Crowder, which was considered a major haul at the time for an unhappy player who wanted out (before Isaiah's injury issues became a bigger issue and before it was revealed that Crowder only plays well in a system). Eric Bledsoe netted a mildly protected first, a second and Greg Monroe's expiring deal (and Monroe himself had value, but Phoenix couldn't move him). Blake Griffin, who hasn't played more than 70 games since 2014 and who has an insane contract, cost the Pistons a first, a second, Avery Bradley and Tobias Harris. Freaking Nikola Mirotic cost a protected first. The Bulls traded Jimmy Butler for nine spots up in the draft, into the lottery, PLUS Zach LaVine PLUS Kris Dunn. Kevin Love was worth the #1 pick overall. And so forth.

                          Seriously, do you guys pay attention to basketball trades at all? Other fans might overvalue Raptors trade assets, but you're acting like DeMar and Kyle are burdens to bear rather than multiple-time All-Stars who WILL be in demand in the trade market as teams trying to compete look for upgrades. Any potential trade for them will be one where Masai gets equivalent value or better, because Masai always wants to win the trade and usually does, and the equivalent value for two guys who can both be at least third stars on your team, possibly second stars, is going to be a hell of a lot.
                          Kyrie is better than DeMar, and much younger than either DeMar or Kyle. That makes a difference too.
                          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                          • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                            Yup. Only Ibaka would really be hard to trade and in his case you can just take back a bad contract from a near/playoff team who needs a PF and probably get a pick or prospect as well.
                            Pelicans?
                            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                            • Barolt wrote: View Post
                              Kyrie is better than DeMar, and much younger than either DeMar or Kyle. That makes a difference too.
                              Kyrie's injury history makes a bigger difference, though. Dude is paper mache.

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                              • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                                Pelicans?
                                Eh Mirotic fit in really well there, I imagine they would rather go after shooters/wing defenders.

                                As for those trade examples, I think they are relevant but also worth recognizing that at the time, everyone thought that the team trading the star lost the trade. The Kyrie trade was kind of always a steal for Boston, and Butler for an injured Zach Lavine, Kris Dunn after an abysmal rookie year and a pick swap is considered good in hindsight, but at the time wasn't great. The Clips robbed Detroit though, no doubt about that. Plenty of teams desperate to win, so I don't think it would be hard to move DD for a good return.

                                I still think the Clips would be a decent partner. Jerry West doesn't want to tank, and I could definitely see them giving up their two late lotto picks for DD. If they trade Gallinari + whatever they would only have Demar and Lou Will on the books beyond a year, which gives them a chance to go in any direction. I imagine they want to try and find a different star first (Kawhi/LeBron) but after that, maybe they would go for Demar.

                                EDIT: Also I think 2 late lottos is still a really good haul. Looking at past drafts, some really nice players get picked in that 12-15 range, and having two chances would be real nice.

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