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  • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
    I thought supermax was only available as a bird rights type of thing, to incentivize teams keeping their superstars and stars staying in the city that drafted them.

    Obviously the extra year is a benefit, but you mean to tell me the 6ers for example could offer Lebron the same 4 year deal as Cleveland can?
    Same starting salary. The home team can offer slightly bigger raises and an extra year.

    The supermax term really became popular over the past year because of the designated veteran extensions that allowed guys to get the supermax early. But the maximums defined are just starting salaries based on years of experience. Supermax being the 10-year starting point. Bird Rights do offer an additional advantage with the slightly higher raises, but that's a separate point.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      Same starting salary. The home team can offer slightly bigger raises and an extra year.

      The supermax term really became popular over the past year because of the designated veteran extensions that allowed guys to get the supermax early. But the maximums defined are just starting salaries based on years of experience. Supermax being the 10-year starting point. Bird Rights do offer an additional advantage with the slightly higher raises, but that's a separate point.
      Hmm. Are the higher raises significant?

      Lebron for example almost always signs a 1+1 deal to maximize his revenue and flexibility. Would that one year of higher raises be a 2-3M difference?

      I was under the impression that teams could use a higher percentage of the cap to spend on their own free agents. The extra year I donā€™t think is enough to help for parity imo.

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      • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
        Hmm. Are the higher raises significant?

        Lebron for example almost always signs a 1+1 deal to maximize his revenue and flexibility. Would that one year of higher raises be a 2-3M difference?

        I was under the impression that teams could use a higher percentage of the cap to spend on their own free agents. The extra year I donā€™t think is enough to help for parity imo.
        No, teams can't use a higher percentage of the cap, except in the case where their player is already earning the max (rare, as the salary cap tends to rise). They can offer a starting salary of the player's max or a slight raise on the previous season, whichever is bigger.

        LeBron's deals are not to maximize revenue, but control. In cap jumps it helps with revenue, but in most cap years you are better off signing a long term deal to maximize income.

        The raises for a home team are 8% of the first year salary. The raises for any other team are 5%. So, 3% difference, on about 30M means about a 1M difference in raises. That can stack up over 4 years, but not to a huge degree.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          No, teams can't use a higher percentage of the cap, except in the case where their player is already earning the max (rare, as the salary cap tends to rise). They can offer a starting salary of the player's max or a slight raise on the previous season, whichever is bigger.

          LeBron's deals are not to maximize revenue, but control. In cap jumps it helps with revenue, but in most cap years you are better off signing a long term deal to maximize income.

          The raises for a home team are 8% of the first year salary. The raises for any other team are 5%. So, 3% difference, on about 30M means about a 1M difference in raises. That can stack up over 4 years, but not to a huge degree.
          Yeesh.

          That gives him very little benefit to sticking in Cleveland.

          Iā€™d like to see the league let players sign for a (significantly) higher percentage, since if it means an extra 20M over the same term for example, itā€™s a huge benefit to sticking around and will help eliminate superteams.

          But honestly not sure if the league even wants to get rid of superteams at this point. The league is doing better than it ever has and itā€™s been on a steady rise since the Boston Big 3 at the least.

          Sucks, but it is what it is

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          • magoon wrote: View Post
            Masai didn't "shop" DeMar. He explored trade possibilities, which could be anything from finding out what teams were prepared to offer for DeMar to simply listening to other teams' proactive offers, none of which means Masai was desperate to get rid of him or even that deeply interested unless he could get insane value back. A year ago DeMar was a worse three shooter and a worse playmaker. This year he'll likely be all-NBA for the second year in a row. The bottom end of "top 20 in the league" is still more than a lot of teams have.
            Which still doesn't deny the fact that he couldn't get that much value back in a deal

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            • tDotted wrote: View Post
              Which still doesn't deny the fact that he couldn't get that much value back in a deal
              Meh. Not necessarily.

              Just means he couldnā€™t get what he thought Demar was worth.

              For all we know we couldā€™ve been offered a deal that we all thought weā€™d all accept but that Masai thought wasnā€™t worth it.

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              • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                Yeesh.

                That gives him very little benefit to sticking in Cleveland.

                Iā€™d like to see the league let players sign for a (significantly) higher percentage, since if it means an extra 20M over the same term for example, itā€™s a huge benefit to sticking around and will help eliminate superteams.

                But honestly not sure if the league even wants to get rid of superteams at this point. The league is doing better than it ever has and itā€™s been on a steady rise since the Boston Big 3 at the least.

                Sucks, but it is what it is
                I mean, there are like 3 players worth paying the supermax, so it doesn't necessarily help. Also, the idea of a supermax assumes that the best players only care about money, which often times isn't true. First off, they typically make more money from sponsorships than basketball. If you are already getting paid handsomely and you are competitive enough to become one of the very best basketball players in the world, you probably would give up a a decent amount of money for quality of life (winning, the city, family, etc.)

                The supermax mostly hurts teams imo. Hurts teams that draft really well and have multiple stars, and more players get the huge pay day than are actually worth it. Plus when you have players take below what they are worth, the supermax is crippling.

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                • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
                  I mean, there are like 3 players worth paying the supermax, so it doesn't necessarily help. Also, the idea of a supermax assumes that the best players only care about money, which often times isn't true. First off, they typically make more money from sponsorships than basketball. If you are already getting paid handsomely and you are competitive enough to become one of the very best basketball players in the world, you probably would give up a a decent amount of money for quality of life (winning, the city, family, etc.)

                  The supermax mostly hurts teams imo. Hurts teams that draft really well and have multiple stars, and more players get the huge pay day than are actually worth it. Plus when you have players take below what they are worth, the supermax is crippling.
                  Yeah I donā€™t love the idea of a supermax.

                  I think a team should be able to able to offer significantly more money to stay than other teams, and in the same term.

                  The problem with players getting that deal and not deserving it is warranted, but thereā€™s not a lot of solutions that arenā€™t drastic.

                  Just a couple off top that could work would be:

                  -players that youā€™ve drafted that have never changed teams donā€™t count towards your cap, while having a set salary cap for out of market players, this would incentivize drafting to a huge degree, and weā€™d never see situations like the thunder trading Harden

                  -no max deals at all (would a guy like Paul George really turn down 60M a year to go to a smaller market vs 30M in a good market).

                  -let teams spend a lot more on their own players (to the point where it would actually make a difference for the top players in the league) and donā€™t count the ā€œextraā€ the home team is allowed to spend on the cap, only the regular max

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                  • No max deals is the obvious solution. But the players association won't go for it, as it hurts 90% of the membership.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                      I donā€™t necessarily think we should trade Demar for a 4th or 5th pick either.

                      I donā€™t think we should trade Demar at all unless heā€™s being packaged with someone else on our team for a superstar, or we trade for a young player with superstar potential.

                      Demar+whatever the spurs want for Kawhi
                      OR
                      Demar for Ingram

                      Those types of trades.

                      Personally I wouldnā€™t hesitate if the price for Kawhi was Demar and OG, matter of fact Iā€™d probably be willing to throw in Delon or Jacob into that offer as well.

                      Landing someone like a Kawhi should be step one.

                      Filling out the roster afterwards is something Masai has shown heā€™s able to do, and should be the second priority.

                      Number 1 on our list should be landing the superstar, not for marginal improvements.
                      This. Swing for the fences, otherwise stay put.

                      For us to get rid of Carroll we had to give away a 1st & a 2nd rounder and got back nothing . Now all of sudden for Memphis to get rid of Parsons, all they need to do is give their non-top 3 pick on a relatively meh draft, AND they get back a perennial all star in the process? My vote is no.

                      He may have shit the bed on the cavs series and there's little else to talk about right now, but at the end of the day, this is a guy that was on the MVP ladder this year for a considerable amount of time, will make all-nba team again, hardly ever gets injured, and is an all-star. With the right coach & attitude he could be a tremendous boost for 85% of the teams out there.

                      I'm okay if the new coach and Masai would like to pivot away from Derozan, but it better be for a substantial and promising return. Otherwise may as well wait it out for his value to creep back up (this is probably the lowest it's ever been), rather than selling low.

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                      • inthepaint wrote: View Post
                        This. Swing for the fences, otherwise stay put.

                        For us to get rid of Carroll we had to give away a 1st & a 2nd rounder and got back nothing . Now all of sudden for Memphis to get rid of Parsons, all they need to do is give their non-top 3 pick on a relatively meh draft, AND they get back a perennial all star in the process? My vote is no.

                        He may have shit the bed on the cavs series and there's little else to talk about right now, but at the end of the day, this is a guy that was on the MVP ladder this year for a considerable amount of time, will make all-nba team again, hardly ever gets injured, and is an all-star. With the right coach & attitude he could be a tremendous boost for 85% of the teams out there.

                        I'm okay if the new coach and Masai would like to pivot away from Derozan, but it better be for a substantial and promising return. Otherwise may as well wait it out for his value to creep back up (this is probably the lowest it's ever been), rather than selling low.
                        For the first bit: A trade for a superstar isn't happening, its just not. Raps don't have the assets to even get Leonard, but if by some miracle they did, Leonard would dip to LA after a year. No teams are giving up their superstar for an all star, that would be moronic. Not what "swing for the fences, or stay put" means exactly. It seems like you want a surfire superstar, which just won't happen (Maaaaayyybe Ingram in the right context), I don't think any team is stupid enough to trade a guy 1-3 years into the league that looks like they will be a superstar. Teams trade for picks which become those players. The examples of guys who legitimately look like superstars on rookie deals getting traded are so finite and all rely on context to rationalize.

                        Edit: sorry if that came off strong, it was a rough period of the Jets game for me.

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                        • This is kind of a shit year for a high draft pick. After the top 2 players the draft isn't that great.

                          That's a large part of the reason I think we could trade up.

                          If I'm Dallas I want Derozan over Bamba. We'd be banking on Masai hitting a home run with that pick.

                          It seems like both teams could convince themselves they won the trade.

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                          • Doncic pulling a Steve Francis? lol.

                            Mamba Mentality

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                            • TRex wrote: View Post
                              Doncic pulling a Steve Francis? lol.

                              Ok fine derozan for the pick
                              9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                              • DeMar for Doncic and, say, Zach Randolph and Iman Shumpert is a deal that fake-GM me would at least consider.

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