Game 59: Detroit Pistons 94 - Toronto Raptors 123

[DanH]

Allen is a good candidate. Basically the last of the good vets still on the market. My list is basically him, Vince, Bosh (as essentially just a voice in the room) at this point.

[S.R.]

Tony Allen would be a great Norman Powell mentor. Maybe Norm just misses James Johnson.

[kidr1211]

SN story: Can Raptors seriously contend with struggling rookie Anunoby starting?

I hope they give norm one more shot in the SL before the playoffs start

[golden]

Sure, that's part of it. I would also point to a change in tactics with a lot more switching than they've done in the past as being a key component to the defense, which is possible because of the increased athleticism on the team versus years past.

We had the personnel to switch last year: Tucker, 2Pat, Carroll, Joseph, Ross, Siakam, Ibaka, DeMar, Delon, Poeltl, Powell,... is not that different. System changes on both ends have unlocked roster potential because Kyle and DeMar were allowed to rest on defense, to conserve energy for Ride & Die offense. CoJo, Norm & Delon were plugged into the KL/DD role's. Siakam & Ibaka were plugged into the Scola role. Poeltl was plugged into last year's JV role. System changes are the main cause of success this year, not personnel.

[S.R.]

We had the personnel to switch last year: Tucker, 2Pat, Carroll, Joseph, Ross, Siakam, Ibaka, DeMar, Delon, Poeltl, Powell,... is not that different. System changes on both ends have unlocked roster potential because Kyle and DeMar were allowed to rest on defense, to conserve energy for Ride & Die offense. CoJo, Norm & Delon were plugged into the KL/DD role's. Siakam & Ibaka were plugged into the Scola role. Poeltl was plugged into last year's JV role. System changes are the main cause of success this year, not personnel.

Yes and no. Yes because the defensive system is a lot different and does call for a lot more switching. No because have OG over Carroll for most of the year and Miles over Ross are two massive personnel improvements at a critical wing position. Also Ibaka is here all year, Ibaka>this year's Siakam is much better at PF than what the Raps played most of last season with. I think FVV/Delon this year are better backing up the 1/2 spots than last year, too. Poeltl's also definitely better. All the young guys on the bench are a clear step better than they were last year.

Ibaka and Tucker saved the defense down the stretch last year but it was too late to make system adjustments then. I think it's a both/and situation when it comes to personnel + strategic changes.

[golden]

Yes and no. Yes because the defensive system is a lot different and does call for a lot more switching. No because have OG over Carroll for most of the year and Miles over Ross are two massive personnel improvements at a critical wing position. Also Ibaka is here all year, Ibaka>this year's Siakam is much better at PF than what the Raps played most of last season with. I think FVV/Delon this year are better backing up the 1/2 spots than last year, too. Poeltl's also definitely better. All the young guys on the bench are a clear step better than they were last year.

Ibaka and Tucker saved the defense down the stretch last year but it was too late to make system adjustments then. I think it's a both/and situation when it comes to personnel + strategic changes.

We'll never know the answer, but it would have been great to have both these systems with last year's team of veterans....Casey's favorite type of player. And Miles better defensively than Ross? C'mon, man. Is Miles > anybody, defensively? And Miles is complete garbage after 1 dribble. Ross was great last year before he got traded. I think the systems are part of the reason why Tucker left here to take less money.

I think the one of the biggest factors in the defensive improvement is simply that all perimeter players are being held accountable to stop initial dribble penetration. That's why we needed so much helping and scrambling. "Scramble" was basically a code-word, for "Kyle and DeMar regular blow-by", which is why those guys lamented Biz leaving. And if your stars don't have to play D, it sets a tone for the rest of the team. The improved perimeter defense is one of the main reasons why JV looks so much better this year, in addition to how much more engaged he is because of the more inclusive offense.

[S.R.]

We'll never know the answer, but it would have been great to have both these systems with last year's team of veterans....Casey's favorite type of player. And Miles better defensively than Ross? C'mon, man. Is Miles > anybody, defensively? And Miles is complete garbage after 1 dribble. Ross was great last year before he got traded. I think the systems are part of the reason why Tucker left here to take less money.

I think the one of the biggest factors in the defensive improvement is simply that all perimeter players are being held accountable to stop initial dribble penetration. That's why we needed so much helping and scrambling. "Scramble" was basically a code-word, for "Kyle and DeMar regular blow-by", which is why those guys lamented Biz leaving. And if your stars don't have to play D, it sets a tone for the rest of the team. The improved perimeter defense is one of the main reasons why JV looks so much better this year, in addition to how much more engaged he is because of the more inclusive offense.

I wouldn't say Miles is a flat out better defender than Ross, I would say he is a much more reliable and consistent overall player. Both guys had a tendency to either go 1-7 or 6-7 for from 3, but otherwise I don't think Ross could fill Miles' role with the second unit as well as CJ does. CJ is a great fit there, Ross always had Norman Powell issues - you don't know what you'll get from night to night, just as likely to see brain cramps as great play. Miles may miss some 3's but he doesn't look like he forgot how to play basketball.

[3inthekeon]

There is a great breakdown on DeMars D on the front page. His man D has improved but he still gets lost on rotations after all these years. Kyle is the opposite. He gets beaten too often off the dribble, but his defensive acumen has often been pointed out by people with more than superficial knowledge.

[slaw]

We'll never know the answer, but it would have been great to have both these systems with last year's team of veterans....Casey's favorite type of player. And Miles better defensively than Ross? C'mon, man. Is Miles > anybody, defensively? And Miles is complete garbage after 1 dribble. Ross was great last year before he got traded. I think the systems are part of the reason why Tucker left here to take less money.

I think the one of the biggest factors in the defensive improvement is simply that all perimeter players are being held accountable to stop initial dribble penetration. That's why we needed so much helping and scrambling. "Scramble" was basically a code-word, for "Kyle and DeMar regular blow-by", which is why those guys lamented Biz leaving. And if your stars don't have to play D, it sets a tone for the rest of the team. The improved perimeter defense is one of the main reasons why JV looks so much better this year, in addition to how much more engaged he is because of the more inclusive offense.

The team last year could not have done defensively what this roster is doing. Wasn't possible with what they had. Poeltl and Siakam couldn't stay on the floor. Wright was hurt and was stuck behind Joseph and FVV wasn't ready. They had a black hole at the SF spot. Could the end of the year team had incorporated a different defensive approach? Maybe, but it was too late.

Re your comment on Tucker, remember, Chris Paul and him are good friends and Paul recruited him to go to Houston. Surely that played a role. As for Miles, yes, he is better than Ross defensively for the simple reason that you can rely on Miles and could never rely on Ross. Is Ross more athletically gifted? Yep. Should he be better on defense? Yep. Is he? Meh, not so sure. Miles seems to fit in fairly well on that second unit....

[golden]

The team last year could not have done defensively what this roster is doing. Wasn't possible with what they had. Poeltl and Siakam couldn't stay on the floor. Wright was hurt and was stuck behind Joseph and FVV wasn't ready. They had a black hole at the SF spot. Could the end of the year team had incorporated a different defensive approach? Maybe, but it was too late.

Re your comment on Tucker, remember, Chris Paul and him are good friends and Paul recruited him to go to Houston. Surely that played a role. As for Miles, yes, he is better than Ross defensively for the simple reason that you can rely on Miles and could never rely on Ross. Is Ross more athletically gifted? Yep. Should he be better on defense? Yep. Is he? Meh, not so sure. Miles seems to fit in fairly well on that second unit....

Basically you’re simply saying that no two teams are the same, year to year.

But you can say the same thing about any team, every year with roster turnover. However certain franchises have core offensive and defensive principles that they try to adhere to build good habits, which they tweak according to specific personnel. In truth we’ve had one of the lower turnovers in the league under Masai, year to year, but the starters are still trying to unlearn a lot of those bad habits from the last 4 years, like foul hunting, for example.

And recall that PJ called out Demar publicly for defense, and you have to assume that he had that same conversation with Lowry (love to be a fly on the wall for that one). And Carroll was pretty public about the lack of ball movement.

The core principles of ball movement, taking more 3s and switching could have been implemented at any time with any group - aka modern NBA. To blame personnel for not doing it, is making excuses for the coaching staff and KL/DD. We’ve played this way ‘in spurts’ in the past, but main reason it’s stuck this year is because Masai called out the core.

And Chris Paul is good friends with almost everybody in the NBA.

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