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Game #65: Houston Rockets 105 - Toronto Raptors 108

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  • Sonny wrote: View Post
    Hypotethically if you could only keep one, who would you keep, VanVleet or Ibaka?

    I would keep VanVleet. I think it's a no brainer. I agree with T-Rex, VanVleet has become one of the most important players on this team. I have him as the 4th best player on the team.
    No I don't think it's a no brainer. FVV is having a breakout season, no doubt, but he's also had inconsistent games, and will have tough stretches in the future, especially when other teams start to notice/prepare for him, just like every other player.

    The thing is, everybody gravitates to what's shiny and new. When we pay FVV (as we should), he will invariably have a lull in his development sometime, at which point people here will put him on the trading block looking for what else is shiny-and-new at the time. He will then bounce back, and people will say "phew" I'm glad we didn't trade him. Precisely like the cycle JV has just gone through, for example (and one that Powell is going through too, hopefully).

    After the 2017 trade deadline, Serge came to this team to save us from a chronic PF hole we've had for years. Without his defence, length and spacing, we wouldn't have passed the Bucks last year. Since then, he's put up pretty much the same numbers as when we signed him (albeit with an off night here and there like everyone else), did what was asked of him, and filled in at C (while JV was struggling and Yak wasn't today's Yak)

    Like, I love FVV, don't get me wrong, but less then 3mths ago people were throwing Casey under bus for playing him in the 4th. Now the kid's balling. Less then 3mths ago people couldn't wait to get rid of JV. Now he's a defensive machine, shooting 3's and closing games. Will either hit a "Powell" slump soon? Will Serge? Who knows. All I know is if Masai was reactionary and "trigger-happy" to what's shiny-and-new, we wouldn't have built anything. We'd be a hodgepodge of "flavour of the day" players, with no chemistry and no development. So I'd say let's leave the trade chatter for after the playoffs. For now, my vote is to keep them both, unless playoff performance tells us otherwise.
    Last edited by inthepaint; Sun Mar 11, 2018, 04:49 AM.

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    • inthepaint wrote: View Post
      No I don't think it's a no brainer. FVV is having a breakout season, no doubt, but he's also had inconsistent games, and will have tough stretches in the future, especially when other teams start to notice/prepare for him, just like every other player.

      The thing is, everybody gravitates to what's shiny and new. When we pay FVV (as we should), he will invariably have a lull in his development sometime, at which point people here will put him on the trading block looking for what else is shiny-and-new at the time. He will then bounce back, and people will say "phew" I'm glad we didn't trade him. Precisely like the cycle JV has just gone through, for example (and one that Powell is going through too, hopefully).

      After the 2017 trade deadline, Serge came to this team to save us from a chronic PF hole we've had for years. Without his defence, length and spacing, we wouldn't have passed the Bucks last year. Since then, he's put up pretty much the same numbers as when we signed him (albeit with an off night here and there like everyone else), did what was asked of him, and filled in at C (while JV was struggling and Yak wasn't today's Yak)

      Like, I love FVV, don't get me wrong, but less then 3mths ago people were throwing Casey under bus for playing him in the 4th. Now the kid's balling. Less then 3mths ago people couldn't wait to get rid of JV. Now he's a defensive machine, shooting 3's and closing games. Will either hit a "Powell" slump soon? Will Serge? Who knows. All I know is if Masai was reactionary and "trigger-happy" to what's shiny-and-new, we wouldn't have built anything. We'd be a hodgepodge of "flavour of the day" players, with no chemistry and no development. So I'd say let's leave the trade chatter for after the playoffs. For now, my vote is to keep them both, unless playoff performance tells us otherwise.
      Exactly! And this is why I'm so happy Masai is the GM and not some of the people on this board
      I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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      • Keeping FVV over Ibaka is absolutely insane lol

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        • glf wrote: View Post
          exactly! And this is why i'm so happy masai is the gm and not any of the people on any board
          fixed
          If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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          • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
            Keeping FVV over Ibaka is absolutely insane lol
            It's madness. This flavour of the day stuff. We went years without a starting PF, we have one, and we want to jettison him? It's the same as the JV talk earlier in the year - does no one remember not having a quality starting C for... Well, since the Vince heyday? And we finally have one and everyone wants to bail on him. Heck, we also finally have a quality starting SF beside our stars and people like Grange are writing articles about how OG is only starter by default and the Raps should consider other options.

            Gah.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • DanH wrote: View Post
              It's madness. This flavour of the day stuff. We went years without a starting PF, we have one, and we want to jettison him? It's the same as the JV talk earlier in the year - does no one remember not having a quality starting C for... Well, since the Vince heyday? And we finally have one and everyone wants to bail on him. Heck, we also finally have a quality starting SF beside our stars and people like Grange are writing articles about how OG is only starter by default and the Raps should consider other options.

              Gah.
              What I found mind-boggling was that it was only a few minutes after the Rockets game that people started posting shit about getting rid of players.
              If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                It's madness. This flavour of the day stuff. We went years without a starting PF, we have one, and we want to jettison him? It's the same as the JV talk earlier in the year - does no one remember not having a quality starting C for... Well, since the Vince heyday? And we finally have one and everyone wants to bail on him. Heck, we also finally have a quality starting SF beside our stars and people like Grange are writing articles about how OG is only starter by default and the Raps should consider other options.

                Gah.
                Dan H I'm completely with you. People here love to get way too high and way too low on players. Everyone has rough patches in the year and in their careers. Fred has been great but he's also been bad. Norm will be fine. Ibaka has been great at times and bad at others, it's just the way it is for role players. We need them all and they all have contributed to us being the number 1 team in the East. Sometimes I think people forget the days or weren't watching when we had no competent C or PF or SF. And it wasn't like it was just for a year or something, this went on for YEARS. Every time we thought we found one they would underperform and fall off significantly from what they were doing the year prior.

                OG has been great and watching Norm guard guys has solidified that for me. Yes OG hasn't been shooting it well but he doesn't lack confidence and he's our best perimeter defender by a pretty good margin along with Delon. He also has the highest ceiling in my opinion of all our young guys. We need him and he's proven there are other ways to affect the game and affect winning without shooting. I'm so glad everyone was wrong bout JV and we have a GM that has patience because we would be kicking ourselves right now if we traded him for pretty much nothing. Love this team and everyone on it to be honest. I know we probably can't keep them all but that will be a sad day in my opinion. Gotta find a way to keep Serge AND Fred. Norm is the only one I would trade but I still believe in him and think we will regret giving up on him if we do. But yes if it's between Fred and Norm I think I'll pick Fred. Especially since we have guys like Malcolm Miller and Richardson and the Nigel guy waiting on the wings.
                I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                  What I found mind-boggling was that it was only a few minutes after the Rockets game that people started posting shit about getting rid of players.
                  Right it's like wtf we just beat the best team in the NBA right now and everyone contributed to that. What are you even saying. People are so quick to get rid of guys it's crazy.
                  I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

                  Comment


                  • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                    What I found mind-boggling was that it was only a few minutes after the Rockets game that people started posting shit about getting rid of players.
                    I hear ya and I'm not one of them but I think it probably comes down to desperately wanting to keep Fred, more than wanting to lose anybody. Recognizing how well what we have works and fear of losing it.

                    I'm most curious to know right now, we've talked about in the past how the team only goes into the tax if it's for a real contender. With a win like yesterdays, is there much more we can do in the regular season to prove that's the case with this squad. Obviously, it'll ALL come down to how we perform in the playoffs, but I'm curious to know, (particularly from cap-expert DanH) do you think, with a win like yesterday's and the season as it's been, competing well against top competition all year, things start to lean at all in the direction of management just doing whatever they can to keep the band together, or do they shed salary no matter what?

                    I mean if it costs $10million per for FVV (to match an offer sheet), hasn't he proved he's worth that this year? Obviously the tax implications of that will take that number up significantly. But with our senior members coming off the book after two more seasons, could they just bear the tax for the time being?

                    I don't see how you can break up this squad as it stands. That said, does every young person the Raps develop just keep stepping up? Do you let Fred go and have Lorenzo Brown come in and deliver the same magic in the same role next year? Has Masai just discovered a way that continues going forward, filling up the bench with cheap, young talent?

                    (There's a loy of questions in there, ha. #WINNING!!!!!!!!!)

                    Comment


                    • GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
                      I hear ya and I'm not one of them but I think it probably comes down to desperately wanting to keep Fred, more than wanting to lose anybody. Recognizing how well what we have works and fear of losing it.

                      I'm most curious to know right now, we've talked about in the past how the team only goes into the tax if it's for a real contender. With a win like yesterdays, is there much more we can do in the regular season to prove that's the case with this squad. Obviously, it'll ALL come down to how we perform in the playoffs, but I'm curious to know, (particularly from cap-expert DanH) do you think, with a win like yesterday's and the season as it's been, competing well against top competition all year, things start to lean at all in the direction of management just doing whatever they can to keep the band together, or do they shed salary no matter what?

                      I mean if it costs $10million per for FVV (to match an offer sheet), hasn't he proved he's worth that this year? Obviously the tax implications of that will take that number up significantly. But with our senior members coming off the book after two more seasons, could they just bear the tax for the time being?

                      I don't see how you can break up this squad as it stands. That said, does every young person the Raps develop just keep stepping up? Do you let Fred go and have Lorenzo Brown come in and deliver the same magic in the same role next year? Has Masai just discovered a way that continues going forward, filling up the bench with cheap, young talent?

                      (There's a loy of questions in there, ha. #WINNING!!!!!!!!!)
                      Further to that, it really is pretty astounding that we don't stand to lose anyone in the off season other than Fred (who we can hopefully find a way to keep.) Amazing that we'll have this kind of continuity with such a spectacular group of guys.

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                      • The only way you even entertain moving Ibaka is if Siakam somehow adds a consistent 3PT shot and becomes better than him on both ends (which is not going to happen before the end of the season) or you have a deal lined up for a better power forward than Ibaka who fits just as well if not better. You don't get rid of him to re-sign your backup point guard when we have a top 10 point guard in Lowry and another very capable backup in Delon Wright on a rookie-scale deal.

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                        • GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
                          I hear ya and I'm not one of them but I think it probably comes down to desperately wanting to keep Fred, more than wanting to lose anybody. Recognizing how well what we have works and fear of losing it.

                          I'm most curious to know right now, we've talked about in the past how the team only goes into the tax if it's for a real contender. With a win like yesterdays, is there much more we can do in the regular season to prove that's the case with this squad. Obviously, it'll ALL come down to how we perform in the playoffs, but I'm curious to know, (particularly from cap-expert DanH) do you think, with a win like yesterday's and the season as it's been, competing well against top competition all year, things start to lean at all in the direction of management just doing whatever they can to keep the band together, or do they shed salary no matter what?

                          I mean if it costs $10million per for FVV (to match an offer sheet), hasn't he proved he's worth that this year? Obviously the tax implications of that will take that number up significantly. But with our senior members coming off the book after two more seasons, could they just bear the tax for the time being?

                          I don't see how you can break up this squad as it stands. That said, does every young person the Raps develop just keep stepping up? Do you let Fred go and have Lorenzo Brown come in and deliver the same magic in the same role next year? Has Masai just discovered a way that continues going forward, filling up the bench with cheap, young talent?

                          (There's a loy of questions in there, ha. #WINNING!!!!!!!!!)
                          Guys get over Lorenzo brown! lol. He's not a young guy like our bench squad. He's like Demar's age and he is what he is at this point lol
                          I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                          • i think the decision to keep FVV will depend on how we do in the playoffs and how important fred is in that success. We make the finals and likely we try to keep him despite the tax implications. Unless someone throws a really crazy offer at him of course.

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                            • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                              The only way you even entertain moving Ibaka is if Siakam somehow adds a consistent 3PT shot and becomes better than him on both ends (which is not going to happen before the end of the season) or you have a deal lined up for a better power forward than Ibaka who fits just as well if not better. You don't get rid of him to re-sign your backup point guard when we have a top 10 point guard in Lowry and another very capable backup in Delon Wright on a rookie-scale deal.
                              Exactly.
                              I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

                              Comment


                              • Toronto Raptors have the best point differential in the NBA right now.
                                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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