Everything 2018 Playoffs!

[Shaolin Fantastic]

We don't need to purposefully tank, that's basically impossible for a 59 win team to pull off the next year. We should try very hard to turn every big contract into draft picks. Somebody will give up a lotto pick or two for derozan. Maybe we get a first rounder for Lowry. I think we're stuck with Ibaka.

JV is only 26 so I'd be fine keeping him, but I'd let him go for a lotto pick too since we have Poeltl.

It's not impossible at all. You get rid of the key win generators. That means shipping out Lowry, Ibaka, DeRozan and JV.

[JawsGT]

After watching that Celts team, I have to admit I'm starting to think it might be best to tear this thing down. I find it difficult to believe that some other coach can get this team to their level.

That was what game 1 of round 2 at the ACC should have looked like.

[Hotshot]

We don't need to purposefully tank, that's basically impossible for a 59 win team to pull off the next year. We should try very hard to turn every big contract into draft picks. Somebody will give up a lotto pick or two for derozan. Maybe we get a first rounder for Lowry. I think we're stuck with Ibaka.

JV is only 26 so I'd be fine keeping him, but I'd let him go for a lotto pick too since we have Poeltl.

Masai won't do it, if he still believes the Raps are a top 4 team in the East and can still put butts in the seats then he will ride this bus for 1 more year.

[MixxAOR]

Masai won't do it, if he still believes the Raps are a top 4 team in the East and can still put butts in the seats then he will ride this bus for 1 more year.

Don't watch Raps or buy seats and exercise your power as a consumer.

[Primer]

It's not impossible at all. You get rid of the key win generators. That means shipping out Lowry, Ibaka, DeRozan and JV.

How do we ship out players under huge contracts? We have to take salary in return, which will be useful veteran players. If we want to tank the year to do it is when all the contracts are up in 2020.

Instead of tanking we just need to ship demar out for an unprotected first. That team will probably get worse and we get our high draft pick.

[Hotshot]

Don't watch Raps or buy seats and exercise your power as a consumer.

It won't work cause hardcore fans are out, most successful sport franchises cater to families and casual bandwagon fans. There is more then enough for another season run ( right into the wall). Masai will hype up his new coach that will emphasize that the bench players will compete with the starters for minutes next season cause "they are that good".

[golden]

#Tank4Barrett, if the Spurs could do it for 1 season when Robinson was on the shelf so they could snag Duncan so can the Raptors!

#Grin&Barrett (tm)

[Scraptor]

After watching that Celts team, I have to admit I'm starting to think it might be best to tear this thing down. I find it difficult to believe that some other coach can get this team to their level.

That was what game 1 of round 2 at the ACC should have looked like.

It's pretty telling that a Pacers team and a Celtics team without two stars could win against these Cavs.

Stevens is great but for the Celts to win by 25? The Cavs were beatable, and this was our best chance to do it.

If Lebron goes to Philly it will be the same shit again next year.

[golden]

It's pretty telling that a Pacers team and a Celtics team without two stars could win against these Cavs.

Stevens is great but for the Celts to win by 25? The Cavs were beatable, and this was our best chance to do it.

If Lebron goes to Philly it will be the same shit again next year.

Common theme is that both those teams are bringing balls-to-the-wall defense against the Cavs for 48 mins. And they're showing no respect for Lebron. Pacers gift wrapped the game-plan for us and we blew it. Lowry was right... it was all about toughness.

[JawsGT]

It probably didn't help that Demar's head clearly wasn't in the right place, and Serge was basically worse than Scola. But still, they got swept and turtled in game 4. I expected them to fight to the end given the history, but they didn't.

[RapthoseLeafs]

If we could get Wiggins for DeRozan and Fultz for Lowry that'd be a good start. Although Wiggins' contract is worrying. If he doesn't reach his pre-draft potential that's a big overpay.

I would pull the trigger on a Demar for Wiggins contract. Minny is feeling the need to make changes.

Demar is a talented Scorer - with the exception of being a Shooting Guard who can't shoot 3s. He's useless on defense. But while he can be valuable to the Raptors for scoring, his 28 million a year is over the top for a 1-dimensional player - and I use that term loosely. Masai will have a hard time getting value for him if he tries to move him before the 2018-19 season.

I'd keep JV. His value could be greater, but I'd hate to see him move to another team, and excel.

Lowry ... Probably gotta wait him out. Maybe at next year's trade deadline when his final year will make it feasible for a team to take a chance (in a replacement role). That's assuming Kyle is producing at that point.

As for Chewbaka .... good luck.

Gonna be a tough year coming up. If they keep this team intact and expect new results with a new Coach .... that's the definition of insanity.
.

[Scraptor]

Common theme is that both those teams are bringing balls-to-the-wall defense against the Cavs for 48 mins. And they're showing no respect for Lebron. Pacers gift wrapped the game-plan for us and we blew it. Lowry was right... it was all about toughness.

I don't know man. All this talk about toughness and mentality is understating the fact that toughness and mentality are part of who your roster is.

Like you can't just say "oh we would have won if we'd come out with a better mental focus and played tougher."

After five years it's clear that we don't have the mentality and toughness needed for the playoffs, and I don't think you can magically turn it on. You either have it or you don't.

Masai's job now is to figure out who's got it and who doesn't.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I think LeBron signs with Philly, that's definitely the best situation for him. So yeah, the East is gonna keep getting tougher.

I'm sure Masai will be fielding offers on all of our big contracts. Not sure there will be much of a market for anyone but Demar and JV. Lowry and ibaka and too old. Trading Demar and JV for picks is our best bet to get better long term. We'd still be good enough to make the playoffs so MLSE stays happy making money, and we get some other teams lotto picks to try and land the talent we need.

Anyone hoping for a full teardown and tank should adjust their thinking, MLSE is never going to do that. It also doesn't really work. Boston got better by trading their vets for picks. We should do the same.

Oh I know MLSE won't do it. I'm just saying what I think should be done.

I agree with the last bit. If we do a good job of moving vets for picks and assets like Boston (and Houston) did we could come away with something good long-term. We should also try to shop around for young players who are a bit under-appreciated or haven't maximized their initially perceived potential (Wiggins for example).

[golden]

I don't know man. All this talk about toughness and mentality is understating the fact that toughness and mentality are part of who your roster is.

Like you can't just say "oh we would have won if we'd come out with a better mental focus and played tougher."

After five years it's clear that we don't have the mentality and toughness needed for the playoffs, and I don't think you can magically turn it on. You either have it or you don't.

Masai's job now is to figure out who's got it and who doesn't.

If DeMar had been trained and held accountable under another coach to play defense for the last 7 years, I think we'd be looking at a true contender - at least the same type of team as the Celtics. Instead, we proactively built an entire system where everybody else had to play defense instead of Kyle and DeMar, until Masai had to intervene and force us to modernize the offense. But old habits die hard. Kyle is salvageable on the defensive end, but DeMar has to be traded, IMO.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I don't know man. All this talk about toughness and mentality is understating the fact that toughness and mentality are part of who your roster is.

Like you can't just say "oh we would have won if we'd come out with a better mental focus and played tougher."

After five years it's clear that we don't have the mentality and toughness needed for the playoffs, and I don't think you can magically turn it on. You either have it or you don't.

Masai's job now is to figure out who's got it and who doesn't.

Yep.

And you can only be so "tough". This team was bad at defending against top offenses all year, it wasn't something that just magically appeared in the playoffs.



This type of shit gets magnified even further when you're in the playoffs and a team can sit down and gameplan for JUST YOU instead of having to have a more flexible plan for the entire league during the season. I mentioned some related points in my thread where I said we're not going to the finals before the playoffs:

4.) In the playoffs teams actually play up against us. During the season the Raptors aren't a game that any team has circled on their calendar and it seems like we often don't get teams' best efforts (think of this as the opposite of the Warriors effect where everyone is trying their hardest to beat them on any given night).
5.) I don't trust Casey to make adjustments quickly enough and we'll get punished for it.

We simply don't have elite defensive personnel. It's fine against the average and worst teams in the league during the regular season because their offenses don't require that level of defense to stop, and a good season-long gameplan can produce results (hence our very good defensive performances against these teams in the regular season). But when the playoffs come around and you have to face elite offenses like Cleveland, that's when you're going to get exposed, and we've seen it happen year after year now.

Like we discussed earlier, Lowry is a good but not versatile defender. Can sort of guard 1.5 positions. DeMar is below-average to terrible depending on where his head and effort level are at. OG is great one on one, team defense isn't elite yet but it'll get there. Ibaka is basically just a good weakside defender but mediocre overall defender. JV is below average simply because of his physical limitations as a defensive player.

That doesn't scream LeBron/Cavs stopping. There's been a consistent trend with the teams that have beaten LeBron, and that's that they were elite on the defensive end. Whether that was the Magic in 2010, Detroit early in his career, Boston in 2008 and 2010 and Dallas in 2011, as well as the Warriors teams obviously. You can get away with 1 or 2 guys in the lineup that aren't great defensively (Hedo for Orlando, Dirk for Dallas, etc) but when 3 guys are below average and 1 isn't versatile? You're fucked.