Everything 2018 Playoffs!

[MixxAOR]

Toronto Raptors fans right now: pic.twitter.com/FbqbWoMcD7

— Chris Walder (@WalderSports) May 13, 2018

[MixxAOR]

Shaolin - the tank will come if things don't work out the next 1-2 seasons. The contracts will run out and we'll have a better idea of the young players ceilings.

If you're patient enough to want to undergo a 5+ year process to tank for a superstar, why can't you also be patient to wait the additional year or two to get a better idea of the young players and have a couple more fun years before some really hard ones. This isn't the right time to tank yet, but it'll happen unless things turn around and one of the young guys suddenly look like a star.

And lose them for nothing?

[Other Scott]

And lose them for nothing?

You lose them for free cap space - or you trade them as expirings for something small - but keep in mind that you'd need to take equivalent salary back which would go on your cap sheet and probably is a longer term deal.

You can then use that free cap space to take on people's bad contracts and get draft pick compensation in return - think the Demarre Carroll deal for Brooklyn.

Ibaka is not returning anything of value. Lowry is probably not returning anything of value. You can lose them for nothing or trade them for nothing, it doesn't make a difference to me.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Shaolin - the tank will come if things don't work out the next 1-2 seasons. The contracts will run out and we'll have a better idea of the young players ceilings.

If you're patient enough to want to undergo a 5+ year process to tank for a superstar, why can't you also be patient to wait the additional year or two to get a better idea of the young players and have a couple more fun years before some really hard ones. This isn't the right time to tank yet, but it'll happen unless things turn around and one of the young guys suddenly look like a star.

Because there's no point to it. We have to pay these young guys very soon. I want them in key roles for two reasons. One, tanking purposes. Two, we know EXACTLY how good they are so we don't overpay for scrubs like Powell.

If we wait another year to rebuild (and tbh I think DanH and co would just argue the same nonsense in 2019) the young guys are all older and closer to big extensions. Wright will be 26 next year, and could be nearly 30 before any young guy we draft in 2020 (waiting a year that's our timeline to have a swing at a superstar in the draft) comes good. What a waste of fucking time.

Blow it up right now and rebuild. I'm so sick of rolling this same crap out year after year.

[Other Scott]

Because there's no point to it. We have to pay these young guys very soon. I want them in key roles for two reasons. One, tanking purposes. Two, we know EXACTLY how good they are so we don't overpay for scrubs like Powell.

If we wait another year to rebuild (and tbh I think DanH and co would just argue the same nonsense in 2019) the young guys are all older and closer to big extensions. Wright will be 26 next year, and could be nearly 30 before any young guy we draft in 2020 (waiting a year that's our timeline to have a swing at a superstar in the draft) comes good. What a waste of fucking time.

Blow it up right now and rebuild. I'm so sick of rolling this same crap out year after year.

I don't understand your argument. If you don't want to pay the extensions, don't pay them.

If you're saying we don't learn about the young players on this team because they're in supporting roles but only learn about them when they're in major roles on tanking teams - I don't think that's true. It's not like they're standing around on this team, we are seeing them on major roles in the bench unit. And on tanking teams what often happens is that because your team is incomplete young players get shoved into roles they aren't suited for at all and that harms their development.

[golden]

You guys have actually convinced yourselves we're real contenders to acquire Kawhi.

Lol, I just can't anymore.

Dude... you're panicking worse than DeMar, Casey & Lowry vs. Lebron. lol. The irony.

[MixxAOR]

I don't understand your argument. If you don't want to pay the extensions, don't pay them.

If you're saying we don't learn about the young players on this team because they're in supporting roles but only learn about them when they're in major roles on tanking teams - I don't think that's true. It's not like they're standing around on this team, we are seeing them on major roles in the bench unit. And on tanking teams what often happens is that because your team is incomplete young players get shoved into roles they aren't suited for at all and that harms their development.

I don't know man your asset management is suspect. Don't get anything back for Ibaka and Lowry, don't extend rookie and just let them go. This is the kind of stuff that gets GM's fired

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Dude... you're panicking worse than DeMar, Casey & Lowry vs. Lebron. lol. The irony.

I'm not panicked at all. I just have a major issue with this team's direction.

[Other Scott]

You aren't getting anything back for Ibaka and Lowry regardless - if you do get a good trade that comes available absolutely make it. Sometimes cap space is a more valuable asset than anything anyone will give you back in a trade.

In terms of the young guys I'm just trying to get into Shaolin's mind. You should probably extend them.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

You aren't getting anything back for Ibaka and Lowry regardless - if you do get a good trade that comes available absolutely make it. Sometimes cap space is a more valuable asset than anything anyone will give you back in a trade.

In terms of the young guys I'm just trying to get into Shaolin's mind. You should probably extend them.

This keeps being said but I don't think it's true at all.

EDIT: People are talking out of both sides of their mouths on this. DeMar+prospects is somehow enough to get a top 5 player in Kawhi, yet DeMar is the one holding this team back from greatness and isn't that good. Lowry, who's better than DeMar is somehow worth nothing in a trade however, even though people said last summer they wouldn't trade him straight up for Irving given the chance.

[DanH]

This keeps being said but I don't think it's true at all.

EDIT: People are talking out of both sides of their mouths on this. DeMar+prospects is somehow enough to get a top 5 player in Kawhi, yet DeMar is the one holding this team back from greatness and isn't that good. Lowry, who's better than DeMar is somehow worth nothing in a trade however, even though people said last summer they wouldn't trade him straight up for Irving given the chance.

Trade value =/= player value. The NBA is very good at proving that statement, over and over and over again. And yet some people don't get it.

[rocwell]

[Other Scott]

If you believe in DeRozan than you have about 4 years left of peak Demar left most likely, he's still in his prime.

If you believe in Lowry, he's already right about where his decline should set in and is maybe has one year as a star and three as a very good support player left. That would take him to age 36.

That is why Demar is probably worth more in a trade.

You maybe can get something good for Lowry this summer though - and if you can you do it.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Trade value =/= player value. The NBA is very good at proving that statement, over and over and over again. And yet some people don't get it.

And that's not what I said. Some people can't think or read either it seems.

They aren't equal but there is a correlation, and DeMar's youth doesn't make him so exponentially more valuable than Kyle that he can be the core piece in a Kawhi trade but Lowry can't get you ANYTHING in return.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

If you believe in DeRozan than you have about 4 years left of peak Demar left most likely, he's still in his prime.

If you believe in Lowry, he's already right about where his decline should set in and is maybe has one year as a star and three as a very good support player left. That would take him to age 36.

That is why Demar is probably worth more in a trade.

You maybe can get something good for Lowry this summer though - and if you can you do it.

I didn't say Kyle was worth more in a trade. I said he could clearly get you something of value in return. He's not a nothing asset, he's still a top 5-7 point guard.

For example look at Phoenix. New coach, tons of prospects, no good PG and there aren't really any great ones in this draft. You think they wouldn't want Lowry to help them get into the playoffs for the first time since 2010?