Everything 2018 Playoffs!

[golden]

I never said Hinkie didn't have a plan. He did. He just did a crappy job executing it.

As for me, no, I'm no management consultant. I wish what a great gig. I'm the poor fucker who has to deal with them.....

But if you read what Hinkie's plan was, and what he actually did, the execution is pretty much to the letter. How is that poor execution? It's pretty much perfect execution and even better than he (or anybody else) could have possibly imagined.

[slaw]

But if you read what Hinkie's plan was, and what he actually did, the execution is pretty much to the letter. How is that poor execution? It's pretty much perfect execution and even better than he (or anybody else) could have possibly imagined.

He accumulated a lot of picks (check), missed on half (?) of them, and collected more (check). Danny Ainge did the same thing in half the time? Less? That's perfect execution? And, having known lots of guys like Hinkie, I guarantee it isn't better than he could have imagined.....

Part of Hinkie's genius (and the genius of his ilk) is creating what is effectively an unfalsifiable standard of success. That's one of the reasons he refused to put any timeline on it. Now that they are winning he is given a bunch of the credit. If they were losing, he'd argue it's because they didn't stick to his plan and it's all prettied up in management patois to make it sound important. But it's just bullshit.

[hotfuzz]

He accumulated a lot of picks (check), missed on half (?) of them, and collected more (check). Danny Ainge did the same thing in half the time? Less? That's perfect execution? And, having known lots of guys like Hinkie, I guarantee it isn't better than he could have imagined.....

Part of Hinkie's genius (and the genius of his ilk) is creating what is effectively an unfalsifiable standard of success. That's one of the reasons he refused to put any timeline on it. Now that they are winning he is given a bunch of the credit. If they were losing, he'd argue it's because they didn't stick to his plan and it's all prettied up in management patois to make it sound important. But it's just bullshit.

I'd rather have Sixers' squad than Boston's. Way more potential.

[hotfuzz]

Jesus christ the Bucks fucking suck. How did they ever take us to 6 games?

[S.R.]

Jesus christ the Bucks fucking suck. How did they ever take us to 6 games?

I think they've regressed. They were built to overhelp and play swarming D, that tactic gets burned by ball movement and 3's which is the default O for more and more teams (it worked great against the Raps old system tho). Bucks need to revamp things.

Also, their role players aren't that good.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Jesus christ the Bucks fucking suck. How did they ever take us to 6 games?

If Stackhouse or Nurse coach the Bucks next year they are taking a big step forward.

[golden]

He accumulated a lot of picks (check), missed on half (?) of them, and collected more (check). Danny Ainge did the same thing in half the time? Less? That's perfect execution? And, having known lots of guys like Hinkie, I guarantee it isn't better than he could have imagined.....

Part of Hinkie's genius (and the genius of his ilk) is creating what is effectively an unfalsifiable standard of success. That's one of the reasons he refused to put any timeline on it. Now that they are winning he is given a bunch of the credit. If they were losing, he'd argue it's because they didn't stick to his plan and it's all prettied up in management patois to make it sound important. But it's just bullshit.

You really didn’t read the article, did you? Missing on most of the picks was factored into the plan. The process was all about playing the odds and churning through picks and players quickly until you acquired a guy you could build around. He landed two. Nobody had ever done that more intensely and purposefully as Hinkie. The Process treated players as commodities and that’s what pissed off the agents and why Jerry Colangelo was summoned.

I’m still a staunch anti-tanker, but grudgingly having to respect what Hinkie did. Others try to tank for one or two seasons and get a decent player, then feel the pressure to build again. I find tanking a bit slimy, but he played within the rules.

And Danny Ainge got to Billy King before anybody else did, so he’s a pretty smart dude too, but we’re not supposed to give any credit to Chowdahs around here.

You really should take the time to read the article, otherwise you’re coming off as sounding ignorant.

[Scraptor]

Thats the whole point. Instead of paying a washed up vet to "help young guys mature" Hinkie kept bringing guys in on 10 day contracts to eventually get someone who stuck. The point is that he gave himself as many chances as possible, not that he was a genius who knew who the good guys were; I mean the guy whiffed a lot of picks. The sign of a good GM isn't a guy who gets lucky and reacts to good fortune, but the guy who is proactive and has a vision.

I agree that vision and long-term strategy are vital, but Hinkie's massive roster turnover was like spending your salary on lottery tickets because you know the government is going to give you a bonus at the end of the year.

And you can't just look at the two guys who stuck, you have to consider the percentage... One year they had 28 guys, early the next they had 21.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...the_court.html

You have to measure the results against the time it took. So to get two role players out of 4 years and maybe 80 players... Big deal.

What Hinkie did right was gathering assets and drafting for upside. He should definitely get credit for that. But slaw is right in that his plan was unfalsifiable.

Also on a side note, vets are more important than you're giving credit for. Take a look at Presti's OKC rebuild. Nick Collison, Kurt Thomas, Earl Watson.... These are guys who helped nurture KD, Russ, and Harden.

During the first years of the process, Jahlil Okafor and Nerlens Noel both had major off-court issues because of a lack of leadership. Simmons and Embiid are getting the credit now but guys like Redick, Amir, Ilyasova and Belinelli are all making major contributions this year.

Team building is more than just asset building.

[The Great One]

Y'all realize Embiid and Simmons were a product of luck right? the Sixers didn't get those guys because they "tanked".

The Kings, Suns, Magic and a bunch of other teams have been "tanking" for years and they still suck.

Embiid was the best prospect in the 14 draft but he fell to the Sixers at 3 because of his injury history. If the Sixers had the 1st overall pick that year, pretty sure they would draft Wiggins.

If Embiid played in the 15-16 season(his 2nd year) then there's no way they'd be in the Ben Simmons sweepstakes.

If Embiid or Simmons were healthy last year then there's no way they'd be in a position to draft Fultz.

It'a all luck.

[Mitch P]

What do owners care most about? Winning championships, having winning seasons or making money? The Knicks (or Maple Leafs) have consistently done the latter without either of the former. As hard core fans we care about one and two but not three. Whether we would prefer one or two (if we can't have both) is very much an individual taste as one can read in this forum. If an owner is a very wealthy corporation or mega billionaire they might really strive for the championship so they can bask in the glory. Teams that really need to make a consistent profit might prefer steady winning and would never want to tank. One way to reduce tanking might be to actually have a lot of money at stake depending on where a team finished. Lets say each team put 50 million in the pot and it was divided up at the end of the year based on the standings. Maybe it would take more money. I don't think when the modern standings based players drafts began it was ever thought that teams would intentionally lose.

[Nilanka]

Y'all realize Embiid and Simmons were a product of luck right? the Sixers didn't get those guys because they "tanked".

The Kings, Suns, Magic and a bunch of other teams have been "tanking" for years and they still suck.

Embiid was the best prospect in the 14 draft but he fell to the Sixers at 3 because of his injury history. If the Sixers had the 1st overall pick that year, pretty sure they would draft Wiggins.

If Embiid played in the 15-16 season(his 2nd year) then there's no way they'd be in the Ben Simmons sweepstakes.

If Embiid or Simmons were healthy last year then there's no way they'd be in a position to draft Fultz.

It'a all luck.

You put yourself in a position to be lucky. If the 76ers were winning 35 games every year, they would never have been in a position to luck into Embiid or Simmons.

[DanH]

Y'all realize Embiid and Simmons were a product of luck right? the Sixers didn't get those guys because they "tanked".

The Kings, Suns, Magic and a bunch of other teams have been "tanking" for years and they still suck.

Embiid was the best prospect in the 14 draft but he fell to the Sixers at 3 because of his injury history. If the Sixers had the 1st overall pick that year, pretty sure they would draft Wiggins.

If Embiid played in the 15-16 season(his 2nd year) then there's no way they'd be in the Ben Simmons sweepstakes.

If Embiid or Simmons were healthy last year then there's no way they'd be in a position to draft Fultz.

It'a all luck.

It's not really. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the strategy.

The strategy is to remove luck from the equation by drafting as many high end prospects as possible, in as quick succession as possible. If Embiid were healthy and Hinkie was still at the helm, they'd have found ways to give him too little help to succeed.

It's a fine strategy. It yielded Embiid and Simmons, and also Noel and Okafor and Payton (who they flipped for Saric). They missed as much as they hit, which is not even a great success rate that close to the top of the draft - which speaks even more to how solid the strategy was.

Of course, my view on Hinkie is much like a card sharp taking down a Vegas casino. Finding a way to game the system, cheat the game, that's almost admirable. He did a hell of a job at that. But if you do it so blatantly that you get blacklisted from all the Vegas casinos? That's not the sign of a good card hustler. He played by the letter of the law rather than the spirit, and eventually it got him removed from the system (and the system changed). So, good for the 76ers for benefiting from the Process. But they also broke the model for everyone else. Good luck finding a GM willing to go to the lengths Hinkie did, with the rewards now suppressed and the personal risk probably just as great.

[KeonClark]

It's not really. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the strategy.

The strategy is to remove luck from the equation by drafting as many high end prospects as possible, in as quick succession as possible. If Embiid were healthy and Hinkie was still at the helm, they'd have found ways to give him too little help to succeed.

It's a fine strategy. It yielded Embiid and Simmons, and also Noel and Okafor and Payton (who they flipped for Saric). They missed as much as they hit, which is not even a great success rate that close to the top of the draft - which speaks even more to how solid the strategy was.

Of course, my view on Hinkie is much like a card sharp taking down a Vegas casino. Finding a way to game the system, cheat the game, that's almost admirable. He did a hell of a job at that. But if you do it so blatantly that you get blacklisted from all the Vegas casinos? That's not the sign of a good card hustler. He played by the letter of the law rather than the spirit, and eventually it got him removed from the system (and the system changed). So, good for the 76ers for benefiting from the Process. But they also broke the model for everyone else. Good luck finding a GM willing to go to the lengths Hinkie did, with the rewards now suppressed and the personal risk probably just as great.

Of course, until Philly wins a championship in the next few years. Then there'll be a thousand Hinkies

[slaw]

You really didn’t read the article, did you? Missing on most of the picks was factored into the plan. The process was all about playing the odds and churning through picks and players quickly until you acquired a guy you could build around. He landed two. Nobody had ever done that more intensely and purposefully as Hinkie. The Process treated players as commodities and that’s what pissed off the agents and why Jerry Colangelo was summoned.

I’m still a staunch anti-tanker, but grudgingly having to respect what Hinkie did. Others try to tank for one or two seasons and get a decent player, then feel the pressure to build again. I find tanking a bit slimy, but he played within the rules.

And Danny Ainge got to Billy King before anybody else did, so he’s a pretty smart dude too, but we’re not supposed to give any credit to Chowdahs around here.

You really should take the time to read the article, otherwise you’re coming off as sounding ignorant.

I read the article. I've read lots of articles about Hinkie. I understand the plan fine.

[DanH]

Of course, until Philly wins a championship in the next few years. Then there'll be a thousand Hinkies

I don't know that there will be. Hinkie won't be winning the championship.