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NBA Playoffs! Round 2, Game 2: Toronto Raptors 110 - Cleveland Steamers 128 (CLE 2-0)

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  • #31
    Odds of Marc Davis and/or Tony Brothers reffing this game are roughly 1 billion percent.
    "Stop eating your sushi."
    "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
    "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
    - Jack Armstrong

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    • #32
      Surprisingly Cavs are paying -120 to win the series. Which is still a lot IMO.

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      • #33
        DanH wrote: View Post
        Which 3.5? They played stupid in the 2nd Q. I thought they played well in the 4th and OT, unfortunately they missed some good looks they generated and their coach shot them in the foot for a key stretch.
        Alright 2.5. They played stupid for the 2nd quarter, and the last half of the 4th.

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        • #34
          Nilanka wrote: View Post
          Alright 2.5. They played stupid for the 2nd quarter, and the last half of the 4th.
          I thought they were fine in the 4th. Got a lot of good looks, defended well. Just missed. There were a few possessions that fell apart, but overall they were functional late.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • #35
            DanH wrote: View Post
            I thought they were fine in the 4th. Got a lot of good looks, defended well. Just missed. There were a few possessions that fell apart, but overall they were functional late.
            I dunno. The desperation/panic stands out in the clutch. And obviously the shaky knees shooting.

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            • #36
              Nilanka wrote: View Post
              I dunno. The desperation/panic stands out in the clutch. And obviously the shaky knees shooting.
              You find it obvious. I do not. Shots can miss without there being a massive narrative behind it. There was just a lid on the rim. If they turtled and couldn't create good shots, were just dribbling the ball for 20 seconds and getting Lowry or DeMar iso possessions, yeah, I'd be saying they crumbled late. As it is, they missed some shots and had a few hiccups, and if they had just run out looks that made sense instead of guarding Love in the post with DeRozan (on purpose), they'd have pulled it out.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • #37
                DanH wrote: View Post
                You find it obvious. I do not. Shots can miss without there being a massive narrative behind it. There was just a lid on the rim. If they turtled and couldn't create good shots, were just dribbling the ball for 20 seconds and getting Lowry or DeMar iso possessions, yeah, I'd be saying they crumbled late. As it is, they missed some shots and had a few hiccups, and if they had just run out looks that made sense instead of guarding Love in the post with DeRozan (on purpose), they'd have pulled it out.
                We can write off the 3-20 shooting as a statistical anomaly. But I find the timing (i.e. late 4th quarter) to be far too coincidental to do so. The pressure got to these guys. They missed shots because of the weight on their shoulders.

                62% shooting in the 1st quarter, when the lights weren't quite as bright.

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                • #38
                  Nilanka wrote: View Post
                  We can write off the 3-20 shooting as a statistical anomaly. But I find the timing (i.e. late 4th quarter) to be far too coincidental to do so. The pressure got to these guys. They missed shots because of the weight on their shoulders.

                  62% shooting in the 1st quarter, when the lights weren't quite as bright.
                  If you say so. If they blanked in the 1st, the narrative would be that the lights were too bright at tip-off against LeBron. I don't buy it. Not remotely.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • #39
                    DanH wrote: View Post
                    You find it obvious. I do not. Shots can miss without there being a massive narrative behind it. There was just a lid on the rim. If they turtled and couldn't create good shots, were just dribbling the ball for 20 seconds and getting Lowry or DeMar iso possessions, yeah, I'd be saying they crumbled late. As it is, they missed some shots and had a few hiccups, and if they had just run out looks that made sense instead of guarding Love in the post with DeRozan (on purpose), they'd have pulled it out.
                    The only way this makes sense is if you're saying a different lineup would have hit 1 of the 11 shots they missed in the last 4 minutes, which is literally all they needed to win in regulation. That might be the case, but what happened there was not just bad luck. A whole team of professional basketball players does not miss 11 shots in a row without some greater narrative at play. There's no such thing as the basket having a lid on it.

                    Playing in high-pressure situations causes some (many) guys to tighten up, get the yips, etc. That's something that actually happens, vs. the basket getting a lid on it. And all those missed chippies had that look of pressure-forced, hurried shots. JC beasted in the 3rd with the same kinds of shots he couldn't hit down the stretch. Same with other uncharacteristic misses (Fred's two 3s were very good looks that he hits regularly when healthy, for instance). It looked like they were so desperate to win this game and get the monkey off their back with CLE that they stopped taking good, measured shots and panicked as CLE closed in.

                    The positive is that they beat themselves and they know it; the Cavs had nothing for them if they execute the game plan and guard the 3-point shooters.
                    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                    • #40
                      jimmie wrote: View Post
                      The only way this makes sense is if you're saying a different lineup would have hit 1 of the 11 shots they missed in the last 4 minutes, which is literally all they needed to win in regulation. That might be the case, but what happened there was not just bad luck. A whole team of professional basketball players does not miss 11 shots in a row without some greater narrative at play. There's no such thing as the basket having a lid on it.

                      Playing in high-pressure situations causes some (many) guys to tighten up, get the yips, etc. That's something that actually happens, vs. the basket getting a lid on it. And all those missed chippies had that look of pressure-forced, hurried shots. JC beasted in the 3rd with the same kinds of shots he couldn't hit down the stretch. Same with other uncharacteristic misses (Fred's two 3s were very good looks that he hits regularly when healthy, for instance). It looked like they were so desperate to win this game and get the monkey off their back with CLE that they stopped taking good, measured shots and panicked as CLE closed in.

                      The positive is that they beat themselves and they know it; the Cavs had nothing for them if they execute the game plan and guard the 3-point shooters.
                      You appear to be completely missing my point, which is that the game was not lost in the final 4 minutes (and OT), but in the 2 minutes that preceded those 4 minutes.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • #41
                        Nilanka wrote: View Post
                        We can write off the 3-20 shooting as a statistical anomaly. But I find the timing (i.e. late 4th quarter) to be far too coincidental to do so. The pressure got to these guys. They missed shots because of the weight on their shoulders.

                        62% shooting in the 1st quarter, when the lights weren't quite as bright.
                        The talk of pressure is overrated. They missed shots they’d usually make. JV missed layups, others missed some open shots. 3-20 is as big of a statistical anomaly as it gets. I guess the pressure got to Lebron as well because other than the shot he made near the end of the 4th, he wasn’t very effective in the 4th and OT. The Raptors in the Wizards series was the best 4th quarter team in the Playoffs. This was very much a statistical anomaly.

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                        • #42
                          DanH wrote: View Post
                          If you say so. If they blanked in the 1st, the narrative would be that the lights were too bright at tip-off against LeBron. I don't buy it. Not remotely.
                          What can I say, I'm an armchair psychologist

                          I just saw a ton of indecisiveness (Lowry especially) when it mattered most. Again, hard to sell that as a coincidence given the stage and opponent.

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                          • #43
                            A.I wrote: View Post
                            The talk of pressure is overrated. They missed shots they’d usually make. JV missed layups, others missed some open shots. 3-20 is as big of a statistical anomaly as it gets. I guess the pressure got to Lebron as well because other than the shot he made near the end of the 4th, he wasn’t very effective in the 4th and OT. The Raptors in the Wizards series was the best 4th quarter team in the Playoffs. This was very much a statistical anomaly.
                            1st bold: Except LeBron doesn't have a 5 year history of buckling under the pressure. Apples and oranges.

                            2nd bold: The Wizards haven't owned us for the past 3 years. Raps have zero reason to fear them.

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                            • #44
                              Nilanka wrote: View Post
                              What can I say, I'm an armchair psychologist

                              I just saw a ton of indecisiveness (Lowry especially) when it mattered most. Again, hard to sell that as a coincidence given the stage and opponent.
                              There was some indecisiveness in running the offence. I don't disagree. They still fought through that and got themselves good looks. And as noted, I don't buy that them missing shots has anything to do with that indecisiveness when running plays. They just missed.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                              • #45
                                NBA Playoffs! Round 2, Game 2: Toronto Raptors vs Cleveland Steamers, Thursday May 3, 2018 at 18:00 EST on SN1/ESPN

                                Nilanka wrote: View Post
                                Except LeBron doesn't have a 5 year history of buckling under the pressure. Apples and oranges.
                                Doube standards more like. Raptors have won in pressure situations over the last few years (Lost some as well of course), look at the Game 7s against Pacers, Heat and Bucks. Game 7 is as high pressure as it gets. And no they didn’t lose to Cavs because of pressure the last 2 Playoffs, they lost because the Cavs were the better team. They got to the Finals both years and won 1.

                                The only time the Raptors actually “choked” or “crumbled under pressure” was the 4-0 loss to the Wizards.
                                Last edited by A.I; Wed May 2, 2018, 01:54 PM.

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