Everything 2018 NBA draft

[The Great One]

Draft Day!

Who is the Bo Callahan of this draft?

[Demographic Shift]

The knock on Doncic isn't as weak as a mandatory phoned in stereotype or label. Its based on real games. Real games where he struggles when faced with elite athletes. You won't find a single person saying Doncic is from Europe so he's not a strong athlete. Most teams in the lotto are trying to save their jobs, they're not armchair quarterbacks with no skin in the game.

Can see that.... let me digress.

I am personally following a story on the latest Grade 12 phenom Zion Willamson. By virtue of genetics Mr. Willamson is a man amongst boys. He is 6 foot 5 and 250 plus pounds at 17. He dunks with impunity against 5 foot 8 147 pound kids in high school games. He owns the floor. BUT.. the skill pyramid now moves up a layer to the NCAA. He will at least face some increased competition at the next level in terms of size and skills. Genetics will still be Mr. Williamsons best friend in the NCAA and the odds are stacked high that he will get drafted into the NBA by virtue of his DNA.

So what I am following is .... why does Mr. Williamson's "athleticism" against inferior competition make him a better bet at the next level than Luka Doncic performances in a league with superior competition....

Lets talk in a year or two.

[Demographic Shift]

Draft Day!

Who is the Bo Callahan of this draft?

Micheal Porter Jr. and a late edit.... Trae Young.

[Demographic Shift]

The conversation really isn't off-topic, it's just a very uncomfortable one. We are talking about the potential #1 pick of the draft and unfortunately bias and stereotypes, real or imagined, are at play here. I learned something (from you!) which I wouldn't otherwise have known about Doncic, so it was a useful discussion to have, IMO.

Lets talk about your family's position on abortion.

[planetmars]

Draft Day!

Who is the Bo Callahan of this draft?

LOL.. that movie was hilarious. Porter's injury will derail his stock. He'll end up at 5 or 6 I bet.

[Apollo]

I just don't think that's true, do you really think the average player on the University of South Carolina is as athletic as the average player on Maccabi Tel Aviv? And even if you do think so, why is playing against athletic defenders a more valuable measure than playing against strong experienced defenders? It's easier to beat an athletic defender making mistakes than a smart defender.

I'm not talking averages. I said the opposite of that. I said there are more elite athletes in college than Euroball. I said scouts can get a larger sample size on college players going against the elite athletes. Finally I said that the film we do have on Doncic going against elite athletes shows him struggling.

I don't care about the average college baller. I care about the film of the prospect going against the ballers with elite athleticism.

[Apollo]

Yeah drafting guys is only partially about the resume to date but is more weighted towards projected development, a huge piece of which is body + athleticism. How good is the 19 year old going to be 5-10 years from now?

Nobody can predict the future tho, hence all the whiffs and busts.

Doncic does have a little room to grow. I mean he looks a little pudgy and there are questions about his lifestyle habits. If he corrects that it helps a little although I don't know how much. I can tell you his 230 frame isn't pure muscle, put it that way.

[Apollo]

The conversation really isn't off-topic, it's just a very uncomfortable one. We are talking about the potential #1 pick of the draft and unfortunately bias and stereotypes, real or imagined, are at play here. I learned something (from you!) which I wouldn't otherwise have known about Doncic, so it was a useful discussion to have, IMO.

No, if you go there it will kill this thread so just start a new thread about that topic please. There's no thread limit to this place. I support you wanting to have the conversation.

[Apollo]

Can see that.... let me digress.

I am personally following a story on the latest Grade 12 phenom Zion Willamson. By virtue of genetics Mr. Willamson is a man amongst boys. He is 6 foot 5 and 250 plus pounds at 17. He dunks with impunity against 5 foot 8 147 pound kids in high school games. He owns the floor. BUT.. the skill pyramid now moves up a layer to the NCAA. He will at least face some increased competition at the next level in terms of size and skills. Genetics will still be Mr. Williamsons best friend in the NCAA and the odds are stacked high that he will get drafted into the NBA by virtue of his DNA.

So what I am following is .... why does Mr. Williamson's "athleticism" against inferior competition make him a better bet at the next level than Luka Doncic performances in a league with superior competition....

Lets talk in a year or two.

First, your stance is an understandable one and you make some great point. I get it 100%.

Zion really hasn't proven much, you're right, because the competition is far inferior. However, there is a lot of data and film on past successes and failures similar to him. That data, along with the ball Zion must play before next year's draft, the interviews, the workouts, etc. is significant enough to make an educated guess; an extrapolation out five-ten years. Doncic is doing real things against real pros right now. However, that level he's on is inferior to the NBA. We know he has the mind and skills for the NBA but the body is the question and there are some warning signs about his ceiling because of that. There are real examples of guys who came before him who hit the ceiling due to the same deficiencies. So it's a guessing game based on data and case studies. Zion comes with a lot more mystery. He leaves far more to the imagination and a human's imagination can be a best friend or a worst enemy. If Zion hits he can reach levels that Doncic's physical limitations will prevent him from reaching. That's your answer.

[golden]

Lets talk about your family's position on abortion.

Our family's position is that we wish your mother had a choice... and chose correctly.

[Barolt]

Doncic does have a little room to grow. I mean he looks a little pudgy and there are questions about his lifestyle habits. If he corrects that it helps a little although I don't know how much. I can tell you his 230 frame isn't pure muscle, put it that way.

He's been playing 15-16 months straight, and the Real Madrid training staff would've been working to keep him going for that, not preparing him for the NBA draft. There's a real chance some time off and a better diet plan and he looks more athletic.

[Demographic Shift]

Our family's position is that we wish your mother had a choice... and chose correctly.

Your missing the point and making mine for me with that comment.

[Apollo]

First, your stance is an understandable one and you make some great point. I get it 100%.

Zion really hasn't proven much, you're right, because the competition is far inferior. However, there is a lot of data and film on past successes and failures similar to him. That data, along with the ball Zion must play before next year's draft, the interviews, the workouts, etc. is significant enough to make an educated guess; an extrapolation out five-ten years. Doncic is doing real things against real pros right now. However, that level he's on is inferior to the NBA. We know he has the mind and skills for the NBA but the body is the question and there are some warning signs about his ceiling because of that. There are real examples of guys who came before him who hit the ceiling due to the same deficiencies. So it's a guessing game based on data and case studies. Zion comes with a lot more mystery. He leaves far more to the imagination and a human's imagination can be a best friend or a worst enemy. If Zion hits he can reach levels that Doncic's physical limitations will prevent him from reaching. That's your answer.

Further, Doncic as of today is a much safer bet but the upside is no where near the same.

[Apollo]

He's been playing 15-16 months straight, and the Real Madrid training staff would've been working to keep him going for that, not preparing him for the NBA draft. There's a real chance some time off and a better diet plan and he looks more athletic.

But he's going against guys experiencing the same thing and they ate him alive when we're talking about the elite athletes. They're not training for a draft workout either. They're in the trenches too.

[Hotshot]

Memory lane......