Everything 2018 NBA draft

[magoon]

I said last night we are getting out gm’d look at the Arsenal of picks boston and philly had.

oh, for fuck's sake:

1.) Boston traded away a 9-time All-NBA player, 9-time All-Defense player, a former MVP and DPOY and 15-time All-Star in Kevin Garnett and a ten-time All-Star/four-time All-NBA player/former Finals MVP in Paul Pierce and Jason Terry, who is one of the better shooters in NBA history, for a wealth of picks from a historically all-time bad GM in Billy King who had carte blanche from a know-nothing owner. Nobody is ever going to duplicate that trade - which requires both a core of past-their-prime superstars to trade away and a team stupid enough to mortgage a decade of their future - and it's 90% of why Boston rebounded so fast.

2.) Philly honestly didn't get that many first-round picks, given how bad they've been. They got Nerlens Noel and a first from New Orleans for Jrue Holiday, they got a protected first for Thaddeus Young, they got a first for Michael Carter-Williams (the only egregious overpay; everybody else was basically fair value) and they got a first for taking on Javale McGee's contract, which they immediately bought out. Their important picks have all been their own, because those are the ones that got them Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons, and that was just the reward for being so shitty the NBA literally changed the rules to make it harder for teams to profit from being shitty. Dario Saric, Furkan Korkmaz and Timothy Luwawu are all good players or should become good, but none of them are dramatically moving the needle as much as Embiid and Simmons do, and the jury's still out on Markelle Fultz.

Like, once you get away from Boston and the miracle trade that A) we couldn't possibly have managed to snake away from them seeing as how we lacked future hall of fame players, and B) is not duplicable, the way to get more draft picks is to sell good players and take on bad money. That's how you do it. You can't be good at the same time as you accumulate tons of draft picks; if you're smart, you can accumulate a few while you get better. Boston's done it and Masai did as well.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

This.

I would REALLY like DeMar to be traded. Appreciate the guy, but it's time. I also don't want the trade to be one that hurts the team in the long-term, and think that the team should be careful in approaching this next step.

You think DeMar is actively holding the team back. So really then, wouldn't any trade that doesn't involve us taking back more salary than we're sending out be a good one?

[Barolt]

You think DeMar is actively holding the team back. So really then, wouldn't any trade that doesn't involve us taking back more salary than we're sending out be a good one?

Hmm.

This is complicated. I believe that DeMar is actively putting a ceiling on the team, I'm not sure he's actively holding them back, because I'm not completely sure the ceiling drastically increases without him. I think the best argument for moving him is opening development space in the offense for the long-term development of other players, not short-term improvement.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Hmm.

This is complicated. I believe that DeMar is actively putting a ceiling on the team, I'm not sure he's actively holding them back, because I'm not completely sure the ceiling drastically increases without him. I think the best argument for moving him is opening development space in the offense for the long-term development of other players, not short-term improvement.

Who exactly?

[grindhouse]

oh, for fuck's sake:

1.) Boston traded away a 9-time All-NBA player, 9-time All-Defense player, a former MVP and DPOY and 15-time All-Star in Kevin Garnett and a ten-time All-Star/four-time All-NBA player/former Finals MVP in Paul Pierce and Jason Terry, who is one of the better shooters in NBA history, for a wealth of picks from a historically all-time bad GM in Billy King who had carte blanche from a know-nothing owner. Nobody is ever going to duplicate that trade - which requires both a core of past-their-prime superstars to trade away and a team stupid enough to mortgage a decade of their future - and it's 90% of why Boston rebounded so fast.

2.) Philly honestly didn't get that many first-round picks, given how bad they've been. They got Nerlens Noel and a first from New Orleans for Jrue Holiday, they got a protected first for Thaddeus Young, they got a first for Michael Carter-Williams (the only egregious overpay; everybody else was basically fair value) and they got a first for taking on Javale McGee's contract, which they immediately bought out. Their important picks have all been their own, because those are the ones that got them Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons, and that was just the reward for being so shitty the NBA literally changed the rules to make it harder for teams to profit from being shitty. Dario Saric, Furkan Korkmaz and Timothy Luwawu are all good players or should become good, but none of them are dramatically moving the needle as much as Embiid and Simmons do, and the jury's still out on Markelle Fultz.

Like, once you get away from Boston and the miracle trade that A) we couldn't possibly have managed to snake away from them seeing as how we lacked future hall of fame players, and B) is not duplicable, the way to get more draft picks is to sell good players and take on bad money. That's how you do it. You can't be good at the same time as you accumulate tons of draft picks; if you're smart, you can accumulate a few while you get better. Boston's done it and Masai did as well.

Philly got value for their players at the right time. Deleon Wright I like his game but if someone offer a decent pick for him same goes for OG, and any other player on this roster.

[golden]

The. Fucking. Barometer. Is. Not. Colangelo.

We have moved past that era, Masai needs to be compared to guys who have their teams competing for titles. Not some wide collared snake-oil salesman.

The barometer IS actually Colangelo if you want Masai to do what you’ve been advocating. That’s all we’ve been hearing from you since the season ended, Shaolin..... “DO something, Masai! Anything! NOW!!!!” Obviously, you’ve never been in a position to negotiate a deal in business.

Starting from your negotiating posture is the equivalent of picking up soap in a prison shower. That never ends well.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Dread it. Run from it. A treadmill still arrives.

In time you will know what it is like to continually lose in the 2nd round. To feel so desperately that you are a contender, but get eviscerated by the Celtics or LeBron all the same.

I hope they remember you, Toronto.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

There was an idea. To put together a team of unremarkable castaways and fake all-stars, and see if they could become something... more.

Spoiler: They couldn't.

[Rudy Bargnani]

There was an idea. To put together a team of unremarkable castaways and fake all-stars, and see if they could become something... more.

Spoiler: They couldn't.

Nonsense. Again please be specific—what should MU do? Trade all stars for 2nd round picks and trade future 1st round picks to dump Ibaka?

Like, we can’t just sign Lebron or convince Kawhi to come here?

What would you do? Be specific.

You’re going to say “tank” but like what does that mean.

[Demographic Shift]

Also, I don't think LeBron is what's holding everybody back, because LeBron is going to either LA or Philly at this point if he doesn't stay with Cleveland, so there's not a lot of uncertainty there. I think Kawhi is what's going to make dominoes start falling, and once they do, that's when Masai is going to strike.

Thing with Leonard is the Spurs don’t have to move him now. They can wait for the next trigger point at the February trade deadline if they can’t mend the fence and get him to sign that super max deal. It might be pretty awkward for them but they can wait. I think if George stays in OKC and the Spurs drag their feet on Leonard that pushes Lebron out of LA (Lakers) for at least this year.

So..what’s Magic to do?

Tell the faithful to be patient for another season? Pretty tough after setting expectations so high on FA success.
Or
Look around and see if he can make a bit of a splash while keeping most of his cap space open for a run at UFA Leonard or Lebron/George if they sign 2 year deals with year 2 being Player Options next year.

I’m watching what George and Leonard do. Lebron looks like he stays East if George and Leonard stay put.

[golden]

Nonsense. Again please be specific—what should MU do? Trade all stars for 2nd round picks and trade future 1st round picks to dump Ibaka?

Like, we can’t just sign Lebron or convince Kawhi to come here?

What would you do? Be specific.

You’re going to say “tank” but like what does that mean.

Exactly. If you're going to take an aggressive know-it-all stance, then you need to back it up by offering some solutions. Let's get some real deals on the table that can actually be executed.

[planetmars]

Nonsense. Again please be specific—what should MU do? Trade all stars for 2nd round picks and trade future 1st round picks to dump Ibaka?

Like, we can’t just sign Lebron or convince Kawhi to come here?

What would you do? Be specific.

You’re going to say “tank” but like what does that mean.

Don't want to speak for another poster.. but earlier today or last night, or maybe even last week (don't recall) the stance really was that we needed to tank. Ie, trade both Lowry and DD for first round picks and/or prospects taking back bad contracts if they had to. Like a Noah and #9 (from NY) for DeMar or something.

Start the rebuild immediately with our two all-stars gone and a complete rebuild with just young kids and prospects with hopefully future picks and some bad contracts that we eat until they expire. Basically go full Hinkie until the Raptors find a real star or two like Philly did.

Personally not a fan of that approach.. and unrealistic for a 59 win team in my opinion. But I believe that was what some guys were/are hoping for.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Don't want to speak for another poster.. but earlier today or last night, or maybe even last week (don't recall) the stance really was that we needed to tank. Ie, trade both Lowry and DD for first round picks and/or prospects taking back bad contracts if they had to. Like a Noah and #9 (from NY) for DeMar or something.

Start the rebuild immediately with our two all-stars gone and a complete rebuild with just young kids and prospects with hopefully future picks and some bad contracts that we eat until they expire. Basically go full Hinkie until the Raptors find a real star or two like Philly did.

Personally not a fan of that approach.. and unrealistic for a 59 win team in my opinion. But I believe that was what some guys were/are hoping for.

And that is a completely reasonable opinion. If the Knicks traded #9 and Noah to another team or if Memphis traded Parsons and #4 for someone clearly worse than Derozan I’d have a beef.

But no NBA player got traded last night. Masai wasn’t at home playing video games. I agree with all of the suggestions in your post but have seen nothing to suggest such moves were available.

[inthepaint]

As a fan, I was disappointed we stood pat at the draft. I wanted the emotional instant gratification of putting my hopes on a lottery pick young prospect that could potentially transform the team. That is much easier to do than rationalizing the ability of the current roster to take the necessary steps forward.

That said, I don't know what was offered to Masai, and perhaps more importantly, what he himself offered away. If "x" was offered for "z" and Masai turned it down, I'd like to know what "x" and "z" are before throwing the guy under the bus. If he offered "a" for "b" and that got turned down, maybe he should have offered a + c for b, but without knowing a, b and c, I can't really fault the guy, even though all-in-all I'm kinda pissed nothing was done. Speaking for myself, that's reason vs. emotion within me.

As for Derozan, these two realities are likely co-existing right now: The fanbase and management are realizing it's time to move Derozan, but they also realize Derozan can be an excellent piece on another team, and want to get the most out of him. If I have a nice condo, but need to move outta town for work, I need to sell it. However, I won't necessarily give it away to the first bidder because even though I have no use for it, it will be great on someone else's hand, hence the value. The fact I didn't take the first offer doesn't mean I'm not actively looking to sell it.

Understanding I need to part with it but at the same time not looking desperate, and focusing on the "positives" of the asset, is not only possible, but is also the best way to drive the value up and get the most bang for the buck. I know it sucks to wait , and staying put can be risky in and of itself, as the value can go down.But that's where we are. There's no reason to not hope they won't do something to advance the team in free agency.

[grindhouse]

Think about this for a sec if u have a team that has talent but not enough to win it all. If there is someone in the lottery or u believe is next level talent. If u trade every piece u can to get that player are u killing your team？that player has about 3 years to be really good. So u have 3 year to recover minimum. Most likely 5 years and u can keep that player potential for the next decade +. Canadians are too conservative by nature. If the number pick was avail and we need to trade a future first derozan and a bench mob. I would make that trade because I know for a fact I can’t win with those players. God could be coaching.