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View Poll Results: What's your level of confidence that the Raptors have a successful off-season?

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Thread: Everything 2018 NBA draft

  1. #701
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    Quote Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
    Nonsense. Again please be specific—what should MU do? Trade all stars for 2nd round picks and trade future 1st round picks to dump Ibaka?

    Like, we can’t just sign Lebron or convince Kawhi to come here?

    What would you do? Be specific.

    You’re going to say “tank” but like what does that mean.
    Exactly. If you're going to take an aggressive know-it-all stance, then you need to back it up by offering some solutions. Let's get some real deals on the table that can actually be executed.

  2. #702
    Raptors Republic Veteran planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
    Nonsense. Again please be specific—what should MU do? Trade all stars for 2nd round picks and trade future 1st round picks to dump Ibaka?

    Like, we can’t just sign Lebron or convince Kawhi to come here?

    What would you do? Be specific.

    You’re going to say “tank” but like what does that mean.
    Don't want to speak for another poster.. but earlier today or last night, or maybe even last week (don't recall) the stance really was that we needed to tank. Ie, trade both Lowry and DD for first round picks and/or prospects taking back bad contracts if they had to. Like a Noah and #9 (from NY) for DeMar or something.

    Start the rebuild immediately with our two all-stars gone and a complete rebuild with just young kids and prospects with hopefully future picks and some bad contracts that we eat until they expire. Basically go full Hinkie until the Raptors find a real star or two like Philly did.

    Personally not a fan of that approach.. and unrealistic for a 59 win team in my opinion. But I believe that was what some guys were/are hoping for.

  3. #703
    Raptors Republic Starter Rudy Bargnani's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Don't want to speak for another poster.. but earlier today or last night, or maybe even last week (don't recall) the stance really was that we needed to tank. Ie, trade both Lowry and DD for first round picks and/or prospects taking back bad contracts if they had to. Like a Noah and #9 (from NY) for DeMar or something.

    Start the rebuild immediately with our two all-stars gone and a complete rebuild with just young kids and prospects with hopefully future picks and some bad contracts that we eat until they expire. Basically go full Hinkie until the Raptors find a real star or two like Philly did.

    Personally not a fan of that approach.. and unrealistic for a 59 win team in my opinion. But I believe that was what some guys were/are hoping for.
    And that is a completely reasonable opinion. If the Knicks traded #9 and Noah to another team or if Memphis traded Parsons and #4 for someone clearly worse than Derozan I’d have a beef.

    But no NBA player got traded last night. Masai wasn’t at home playing video games. I agree with all of the suggestions in your post but have seen nothing to suggest such moves were available.

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  5. #704
    Raptors Republic Starter inthepaint's Avatar
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    As a fan, I was disappointed we stood pat at the draft. I wanted the emotional instant gratification of putting my hopes on a lottery pick young prospect that could potentially transform the team. That is much easier to do than rationalizing the ability of the current roster to take the necessary steps forward.

    That said, I don't know what was offered to Masai, and perhaps more importantly, what he himself offered away. If "x" was offered for "z" and Masai turned it down, I'd like to know what "x" and "z" are before throwing the guy under the bus. If he offered "a" for "b" and that got turned down, maybe he should have offered a + c for b, but without knowing a, b and c, I can't really fault the guy, even though all-in-all I'm kinda pissed nothing was done. Speaking for myself, that's reason vs. emotion within me.

    As for Derozan, these two realities are likely co-existing right now: The fanbase and management are realizing it's time to move Derozan, but they also realize Derozan can be an excellent piece on another team, and want to get the most out of him. If I have a nice condo, but need to move outta town for work, I need to sell it. However, I won't necessarily give it away to the first bidder because even though I have no use for it, it will be great on someone else's hand, hence the value. The fact I didn't take the first offer doesn't mean I'm not actively looking to sell it.

    Understanding I need to part with it but at the same time not looking desperate, and focusing on the "positives" of the asset, is not only possible, but is also the best way to drive the value up and get the most bang for the buck. I know it sucks to wait , and staying put can be risky in and of itself, as the value can go down.But that's where we are. There's no reason to not hope they won't do something to advance the team in free agency.
    Last edited by inthepaint; Fri Jun 22nd, 2018 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Better grammar

  6. #705
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    Think about this for a sec if u have a team that has talent but not enough to win it all. If there is someone in the lottery or u believe is next level talent. If u trade every piece u can to get that player are u killing your team?that player has about 3 years to be really good. So u have 3 year to recover minimum. Most likely 5 years and u can keep that player potential for the next decade +. Canadians are too conservative by nature. If the number pick was avail and we need to trade a future first derozan and a bench mob. I would make that trade because I know for a fact I can’t win with those players. God could be coaching.

  7. #706
    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    Canadians are too conservative by nature. If the number pick was avail and we need to trade a future first derozan and a bench mob.
    I'm not sure there was any player besides Ayton, or Doncic that I would've traded DeRozan for...

  8. #707
    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    and going forward, I hope we never trade another #1 again...unless we have two. Drafts aren't as much fun when you are waiting for a guy to drop to you.

  9. #708
    Raptors Republic Veteran Demographic Shift's Avatar
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    3 hours ago – via Twitter
    ESPN Los Angeles: “From what I am being told…he’s made it very, very clear that he’s looking to go to Los Angeles to play for the Lakers and he does not care about the $219 million super max he could sign.” – @stephenasmith on Kawhi Leonard

    It’s Screaming A. smith....but still if Leonard gets into LA this year there is next to no chance that LA is a trading partner for the Raps.

  10. #709
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    Quote Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
    3 hours ago – via Twitter
    ESPN Los Angeles: “From what I am being told…he’s made it very, very clear that he’s looking to go to Los Angeles to play for the Lakers and he does not care about the $219 million super max he could sign.” – @stephenasmith on Kawhi Leonard

    It’s Screaming A. smith....but still if Leonard gets into LA this year there is next to no chance that LA is a trading partner for the Raps.
    Sure there is. It'll just be finding Kawhi running buddies or taking a bribe to send improvements over Luol Deng their way. Probably both. Like, DeMar for Deng, one of Ingram or Kuzma, and a future first-rounder. That sort of thing.

  11. #710
    Raptors Republic Veteran planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Sure there is. It'll just be finding Kawhi running buddies or taking a bribe to send improvements over Luol Deng their way. Probably both. Like, DeMar for Deng, one of Ingram or Kuzma, and a future first-rounder. That sort of thing.
    Lakers are most likely going to be shipping either Kuzma or Ingram to the Spurs (possibly both) which will thin out their prospect pool for a guy like DeMar. I suspect the trade they want is Kawhi and then they'll use free agency to help improve the team. Like bringing in George if Lebron doesn't want to go to LA.

    Wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers stretch/waive Deng so that they can get even more cap space.

  12. #711
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Lakers are most likely going to be shipping either Kuzma or Ingram to the Spurs (possibly both) which will thin out their prospect pool for a guy like DeMar. I suspect the trade they want is Kawhi and then they'll use free agency to help improve the team. Like bringing in George if Lebron doesn't want to go to LA.

    Wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers stretch/waive Deng so that they can get even more cap space.
    Pelinka said they had no problem waiting until the 2019 off-season to make their moves, which is what I would do. They're holding all the cards on Kawhi now.

  13. #712
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Sure there is. It'll just be finding Kawhi running buddies or taking a bribe to send improvements over Luol Deng their way. Probably both. Like, DeMar for Deng, one of Ingram or Kuzma, and a future first-rounder. That sort of thing.
    Yeah, but will they have any assets left after they trade for Kawhi?

    I'm not sure the Lakers can pull off a Kawhi trade anyway. Not sure the Spurs would have enough interest in any of their young pieces. Guys like Ingram and Kuzma look like they offer great value in a DeMar trade, but not so much for Kawhi. And as much as LA has been bad for years, they don't really have a plethora of highly touted youngsters to offer. Ingram, Kuzma and Ball are pretty much all they have (Randle is a RFA and only other good young piece they have rights to). And any future 1st rounders diminish in value if Kawhi is going back because they are not likely to be high picks, probably late lotto at best.

    If I'm the Spurs and the Lakers have the best package, I still wait for the trade deadline, so that LA's 2019 first rounder is likely going to be as bad as possible, and only make the trade if they give that up unprotected.

    *And then if you're LA, why not just wait til you can get him for "free" with cap space in 2019. This whole situation is pretty bad for everyone involved. Kawhi made it hard for the Spurs to get value. The Spurs are shrewd and not likely to make a deal they don't like. LA has no incentive to give up significant assets for a piece they can get in free agency.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Jun 23rd, 2018 at 11:59 AM.

  14. #713
    Super Moderator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Barolt wrote: View Post
    YES!

    We've moved past Colangelo, I agree. We're now a team that actually wins games, and people are grumpy about that. Think about the expectation you have now: "We should be a championship team!" 6 years ago, before Masai, our aspirations were "Maybe it'd be nice to not suck every night?"
    Masai is good, everyone knows that. The bar is raised. If he's a great GM like most think then the fair expectation is great things, just like Ainge does in Boston.

  15. #714
    Raptors Republic Veteran Demographic Shift's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Sure there is. It'll just be finding Kawhi running buddies or taking a bribe to send improvements over Luol Deng their way. Probably both. Like, DeMar for Deng, one of Ingram or Kuzma, and a future first-rounder. That sort of thing.
    First and foremost loved your post highlighting that Danny Ainge is akin to a trust fund baby lunching off that one, never to be repeated, confluence of events that allowed Billy King to sell the family farm for some magic beans from Chowdertown. The old goaltender adage.. better to be lucky than good is what should be put on Trader Dannys tombstone.

    Secondly... I am lighting candles at St. Mikes Cathedral on a nightly basis hoping that the Spurs wait it out and hold on to Leonard and that Paul George stays, for this year anyway, in OKC because if they stay there is hope to move DD to the Lakers. Not a surety but hope. If they move to LA I just don't see the Lakers taking on DD.

    If both Leonard and George stay with their respective teams James is highly unlikely to go to LA. If the Lakers go 0 for 3 then regardless of all the be patient.. keep your powder dry advice Magic and Rob P can't go back to the fan base in LA and say "trust me we will get somebody next year". There will be blowback.

    Will Demar make them better than they are now. For sure. Is he the answer. No. Howver.... as long as there are GMS under fan pressure or job pressure to make changes there will be trades. For Magic is it plausible to bring back a hometown boy to "pivot" the franchise to future greatness a sellable story. Damn straight. And we will still have space to get 2 franchise players next year by ridding ourselves of the toxic long term Deng deal.

    I am hoping that that both George and Leonard stay put and that opens up the door for an opportunity for Ujiri to make a move.... or two. Maybe in LA.. Maybe in Minny.. Maybe somewhere else.

    My view is that whacking the coach wan't and isn't the entire answer.
    Last edited by Demographic Shift; Sun Jun 24th, 2018 at 02:39 PM.

  16. #715
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    Quote Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
    My view is that whacking the coach wan't and isn't the entire answer.
    Agreed. Because it came 3 years too late and Brad Stevens didn’t walk through that door.

    That’s what you meant to say, right? :-)

  17. #716
    Raptors Republic Veteran Demographic Shift's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Agreed. Because it came 3 years too late and Brad Stevens didn’t walk through that door.

    That’s what you meant to say, right? :-)
    Mmm No. But a good chirp !

    On Casey being a bum and reprobate. It took roughly a couple three weeks for DC to find a new long term gig. To re-iterate... Casey wasn't and isn't the only one to who should have a new area code. Similar to the VP of Sales who takes two behind the left ear after s/he misses a personally guaranteed forecast so too does Casey go out on his shield after missing expectations. Its the way of Bismarkian realpolitik or as Al Davis would say... just win baby. They didn't.

    Lots of shared culpability to go around after that debacle with the NewLooks. You can play the "what if" game forever but that choke job in game 2 was inexcusable. The players wear that as well as the coach.

    Love Demar.
    Love the loyalty.
    Love the forthrightness.
    Love the work ethic.
    Love the way he and Kyle have lifted what was once a dog with fleas to one of the top 10 ten teams in the Association.

    BUT


    Love winning more.

    And after 3 runs at it and and coming up short ...... its time sell and try something new.

    BTW.. you and Brad should get a hotel room
    Last edited by Demographic Shift; Sun Jun 24th, 2018 at 04:00 PM.

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  19. #717
    Raptors Republic Veteran Demographic Shift's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    First, your stance is an understandable one and you make some great point. I get it 100%.

    Zion really hasn't proven much, you're right, because the competition is far inferior. However, there is a lot of data and film on past successes and failures similar to him. That data, along with the ball Zion must play before next year's draft, the interviews, the workouts, etc. is significant enough to make an educated guess; an extrapolation out five-ten years. Doncic is doing real things against real pros right now. However, that level he's on is inferior to the NBA. We know he has the mind and skills for the NBA but the body is the question and there are some warning signs about his ceiling because of that. There are real examples of guys who came before him who hit the ceiling due to the same deficiencies. So it's a guessing game based on data and case studies. Zion comes with a lot more mystery. He leaves far more to the imagination and a human's imagination can be a best friend or a worst enemy. If Zion hits he can reach levels that Doncic's physical limitations will prevent him from reaching. That's your answer.
    First progress report on Mr. DNA... aka Zion Williamson

    [IMG] [/IMG]

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