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  • planetmars wrote: View Post
    Bench line up looks weaker this year subbing Serge in for Poeltl.

    111.5/107.7 (+3.8) instead of 114.8/107.4 (+7.4).

    And it's even worse with Monroe.

    Assuming Fred/Delon/CJ/Pascal are the other 4.
    Solution is play JV with last year's Bench Mob. Net +/- is 9.1. Even better than with Jakob.

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    • golden wrote: View Post
      Solution is play JV with last year's Bench Mob. Net +/- is 9.1. Even better than with Jakob.
      JV is a beast. If we start him with Kyle/Green/Kawhi/OG we have a net rating of +18.2. Use Serge instead of JV and it goes down to +14.1. Yet JV's rebounding is so critical for the starting unit that I don't see him coming off the bench.

      Hopefully we actually see JV get some real playing time under Nurse.

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      • golden wrote: View Post
        Solution is play JV with last year's Bench Mob. Net +/- is 9.1. Even better than with Jakob.
        Well, we should also consider that this tool is punching out net ratings, but these are probably net ratings assuming average competition. Bench lineups see below average competition - which is probably a big part of why the bench mob posted a +17 net rating, and not the +7.4 the tool projects here. So the bench could still be extremely good even if they lose a few points or even half of that margin from last season.

        Similarly, we should probably not expect our starting unit to actually post near +20 ratings - something in the +15 range is more reasonable. But who knows?

        In any case, point is that we shouldn't panic ahead of time and alter, for example, what looks like a very good starting/closing lineup to fix a bench lineup that probably doesn't need fixing.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          Well, we should also consider that this tool is punching out net ratings, but these are probably net ratings assuming average competition. Bench lineups see below average competition - which is probably a big part of why the bench mob posted a +17 net rating, and not the +7.4 the tool projects here. So the bench could still be extremely good even if they lose a few points or even half of that margin from last season.

          Similarly, we should probably not expect our starting unit to actually post near +20 ratings - something in the +15 range is more reasonable. But who knows?

          In any case, point is that we shouldn't panic ahead of time and alter, for example, what looks like a very good starting/closing lineup to fix a bench lineup that probably doesn't need fixing.
          I'm expecting more hybird lineups and not such a clear starters/bench mob division as last year anyway
          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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          • S.R. wrote: View Post
            I'm expecting more hybird lineups and not such a clear starters/bench mob division as last year anyway
            What? You mean having an actual "rotation"? Interesting concept. Or we could go deeper into the hockey lineups concept and try changing-on-the-fly.

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            • golden wrote: View Post
              What? You mean having an actual "rotation"? Interesting concept. Or we could go deeper into the hockey lineups concept and try changing-on-the-fly.
              Powell's going to anchor the checking line.
              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                Well, we should also consider that this tool is punching out net ratings, but these are probably net ratings assuming average competition. Bench lineups see below average competition - which is probably a big part of why the bench mob posted a +17 net rating, and not the +7.4 the tool projects here. So the bench could still be extremely good even if they lose a few points or even half of that margin from last season.

                Similarly, we should probably not expect our starting unit to actually post near +20 ratings - something in the +15 range is more reasonable. But who knows?

                In any case, point is that we shouldn't panic ahead of time and alter, for example, what looks like a very good starting/closing lineup to fix a bench lineup that probably doesn't need fixing.
                Who's panicking?

                Comment


                • S.R. wrote: View Post
                  I'm expecting more hybird lineups and not such a clear starters/bench mob division as last year anyway
                  I'm not sure what I expect in this regard. I do wonder whether we get more star-anchored bench units. There will almost certainly be a lot more transitional lineups between the starters and bench just to fit everyone in. But there's a very real opportunity to have the heaviest used players capped at 30 minutes a game, and running Lowry and Leonard and Valanciunas in lineups away from each other may mean they don't get as much time beside each other to develop chemistry as you'd hope. Still, it's an interesting question and I'm fascinated to see what Nurse's approach is.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    Who's panicking?
                    Statistically speaking, roughly half the board at any given moment?

                    Still, I overstepped. Apologies. I don't think using JV with the bench is a good idea, is the point I was trying to make, ideally with less condescension than I probably used.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • golden wrote: View Post
                      Solution is play JV with last year's Bench Mob. Net +/- is 9.1. Even better than with Jakob.
                      Could be a good move for 5-10 mins a game or so. Would give them somewhat of a go-to scorer for stretches in the game.

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                      • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                        Could be a good move for 5-10 mins a game or so. Would give them somewhat of a go-to scorer for stretches in the game.
                        I think this is where the Greg Monroe minutes come in.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post
                          Statistically speaking, roughly half the board at any given moment?

                          Still, I overstepped. Apologies. I don't think using JV with the bench is a good idea, is the point I was trying to make, ideally with less condescension than I probably used.
                          I would really like to see JV get some minutes with the bench group.

                          Specifically, I want to see him play with FVV and Wright more. Jakob is a good player and good till man, but no one on our team sets screens like JV. The brief glimpses I saw last year were fun to watch. You could tell that those guys weren't used to coming around a screen with so much space.

                          I suppose this doesn't have to mean JV playing with the bench as much as just seeing more mixed units. Monroe or Serge can't provide quite the same options as screen/roll guys.

                          Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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                          • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                            I would really like to see JV get some minutes with the bench group.

                            Specifically, I want to see him play with FVV and Wright more. Jakob is a good player and good till man, but no one on our team sets screens like JV. The brief glimpses I saw last year were fun to watch. You could tell that those guys weren't used to coming around a screen with so much space.

                            I suppose this doesn't have to mean JV playing with the bench as much as just seeing more mixed units. Monroe or Serge can't provide quite the same options as screen/roll guys.

                            Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
                            Yeah it would help Wright and FVV. But I think the team is best served having as much of JV's time as possible spent making life easy for Lowry and Kawhi on the offensive end.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post
                              Yeah it would help Wright and FVV. But I think the team is best served having as much of JV's time as possible spent making life easy for Lowry and Kawhi on the offensive end.
                              Sure, but if JV's minutes are going to go up, it should make it easier to have some overlap with different combos.

                              I mean, we rarely saw him play with the bench guys. The odd time Casey might let him play like 10+ minutes straight. Or sometimes if one or two bench guys got extended minutes in the 4th (and you know, of JV got any minutes in the 4th).

                              Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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                              • Barolt wrote: View Post
                                Interestingly, if you slot in Kyle, Kawhi, OG, and Jonas, and then play around with the 5th slot, inserting Danny Green, Delon Wright, Fred VanVleet, or DeMar DeRozan, the worst of those four lineups is the one with DeMar.
                                Which one is the best?
                                I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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